Kasmandre Posted April 16, 2003 Report Posted April 16, 2003 Recently, there's been talk of the forums becoming a more hostile place than they used to be. A lot of people seem to be saying that they haven't seen any of that, and they probably haven't, as the offending posts aren't exactly all over the place. There have been a few things said that should not have been said in a few places. That's not to say that this isn't a big problem. It is. To be close community, we have to trust one another and believe that we're not going to be judged unfairly based on who we are or what we believe. We can't be closeminded about others and we shouldn't try to force our beliefs on others. As far as I know, this is the first time something like this has come up in the Pen. I've never seen people feel unwelcome because of this. For the most part, except in some of the writing, most of these controversial issues never even came up. After all, this is a writing board, and for the most part, these issues are of secondary importance here. Part of the problem is the debate threads that have been popping up off and on again over the last couple of months. Debate can be a fine thing where it's necessary. For the reasons I stated above, it isn't here at the Pen. These debate threads shouldn't have been started. Which brings me to the point. I checked back, and I confirmed what I already knew. The first of these debate posts was started by myself. I posted some stupid comment about abortion and started a debate. Looking back, I can see how what I posted could have offended some people. I'm sorry. I'm sorry to anyone I offended with my post and any trouble I may have caused indirectly by starting that debate. I hope that we can get back to the Pen as it was and as it should be, because that's something truly worth working for.
Ayshela Posted April 17, 2003 Report Posted April 17, 2003 Mmmmmmm. i'm new to The Pen, so can't really say what does or doesn't belong here. When i registered those types of threads were already in existence. i had considered them to be explorations, that the wealth of material each of us has to draw inspiration from could be greater. You cannot write of that which you have not considered. It seems that i was wrong? :-\ Personally, those i've participated in i honestly never considered as debates. I thoroughly enjoy an honest discussion of differing views on the nature of things - life, the universe, and everything - where such discussion involves clear explanation of personal views and beliefs, and is rooted in respect for all participants and each others beliefs. Such a discussion allows each participant to walk away richer in understanding, not diminished by someone's attempt to "convert" him/her to a different belief simply because beliefs differ. To me, "debate" has strong connotations of that attempt at conversion, which makes me distinctly uncomfortable. i have only participated in a couple such threads. By and large, i did feel that i was allowed to express my own beliefs, my own opinions, without being degraded because my opinions may be uncommon or unpopular. When i no longer felt that was the case i ceased to participate. Yet i get the sense that that's the problem, isn't it? That eventually those threads do get into content which is deeply personal and emotionally loaded for many. That a grasp on the ability for all to walk away undiminished can be hard to retain. As i said, those types of threads were already in existence when i got here. i tried desperately to ensure that what i posted there, as elsewhere, was clear, honest, inoffensive, and respectful. If i have failed in that, i apologize. If my participation in those threads impaired the atmosphere here at The Pen, i most abjectly apologize. Much as i enjoy a good philosophical discussion with intelligent people, i will earnestly attempt to refrain from participating in such threads in future. Long live The Pen.
Tralla Posted April 17, 2003 Report Posted April 17, 2003 As abrasive as this may sound, I really don't give a rat's ass about free speech. This is a forum for writing. True, we expect this to be a comfortable, supportive community in which we are free to be ourselves, but we established that community by NOT deliberately posting things that would 'stir the pot', so to speak. This is a forum for writing, people! If you want to be philosophical, or alternative, or debatist, or thought-provoking, reflect that in your writing, or your *constructive* replies to other's writing, or find another board! The Pen is and always should be first and foremost a writing collective. If you want to debate, find a board where people thrive on that and are emotionally equipped (or not, as the case may be) to handle it. That is not why a lot of people came to this community; and whether we think we've "grown enough", are "stable enough", or - to quote one of the better remembered barbs - are "intellectual" enough to handle it, obviously we're not, and it's tearing this community apart. I don't say this to be cruel, I don't say this to make people feel unwelcome, or inconsiderate; take a look at yourselves, see if there's anything you could change in your actions, and apply it to reconstructing the fantastic WRITING community we once had. That goes for the new, the old, the in-betweens, and me too. I'm sorry if this comes across as offensive or preachy as some of the other threads, but it had to be said.
Ozymandias Posted April 17, 2003 Report Posted April 17, 2003 (edited) Well said, all. Though I would like to say this: We don't need to fear or censure our conversations with one another (beyond what common sense and caring tell us)- BUT, we do need to reprioritize what we bring into The Pen. Myself, I've been of the mindset almost from the start that getting every last one of you together and having one of the biggest parties my home state has ever seen would be the greatest moment of my life. The friends I've made here I *will* cherish forever. I hope to make many more. These being my feelings, I can't say no to people wanting to simply talk to another, I really can't. But in doing so, we started not too long ago treating our Pen like a chat board. Then, as we slipped further, it started to become a political forum, with all the rancor, raised voices, and bitter rivalry that implies. I am also of the mindset that we should embrace and teach all who want to learn all forms of writing. Even essays or columns, the seeds of which I see in many of the much-reviled debates we've been talking about. But writing is why we are here. Not friendship. Not a good arguement. Not to find conveinient targets to vent on. None of that, and nothing like that. We're all here, in some way, shape or form because we love reading and writing. As a community, this leads to some expected and some unexpected positive and negative side effects. the positve *should* be nurtured, or we can all be accused of narrow-mindedness and tunnel vision. But positive or negative, all things else than the pursuit of our craft should be dealt with with care and responsibility. "I know less than half of you as well as I should like, and like less than half of you as well as you deserve", to quote dear old Bilbo Baggins. But even though I, and many others amongst our fellow Penners have a long ways to go yet before we've truly met *everyone* here, I do know this: We're all equipped to do what needs to be done, and I defy anyone to prove otherwise. We're ready to deal with our problems, and succeed. Edited April 17, 2003 by Ozymandias the Elder
Wyvern Posted April 17, 2003 Report Posted April 17, 2003 I posted this in the member's forum, but feel the need to post it publically here as well since not everyone has a chance to read that forum. As Ozymandias and Tralla have pointed out, the bottom line is that the Pen is a community primarily focussed on creative writing... I also feel that it is this shared interest in creative writing that builds bonds of friendship in the guild. Here's my post: ----- My thoughts on this matter: The Pen is a community centered around creativity and creative writing, and the bonds that form between writers who share this common interest of creative writing. For this reason, I feel that debate threads are out of place in the Pen, particularly offensive and controversial ones. The emphasis in the Pen is, and has always been, on creative writing and constructive comments. I feel that recently in the Pen, the emphasis on creativity has shifted more to an emphasis on general posting, and will be working to correct this. The first step in this process in correction will be for all of the membership to read back over the "Manners and Consideration" thread currently repinned in the Cabaret Room, to make sure they understand the principals laid out in this thread, and to collectively contribute creative writing and constructive comments to the boards. I also think it is very important that members remain positive and confident in the Pen, despite current issues. I've already seen numerous threads of people blaming themselves. These should cease, and creative writing should continue even as this issue is being dealt with. The Pen has been through difficult times, and has persevered. The current issue the Pen is faced with will be corrected, as countless others have been. Having stated my thoughts on this issue in a particularly bland and unoriginal manner, I give all concerned Pen members my best regards, along with the assurance that this issue will be acted upon immediatly. Thank you all for reading.
Salinye Posted April 17, 2003 Report Posted April 17, 2003 Well... I'm very new here, not even a week yet. (or maybe just a week err not sure) ANYWAY...I just wanted to say that, although I recognize that there has been a problem, and agree whole heartedly that The Pen is NOT the place for debate etc threads, I do think the overall FEEL of the board is getting grossly over exaggerated. Yes, I have seen some inappropriate debates hijack some threads. (They were here before I found this board.) However, that does not taint the over all feel of the board. I disagree!! I have been met with more kindness, love and support and FUN in this last week of being here patiently awaiting my application to be accepted or denied, then I have anything negative. I have read some fabulous writing and am just starting to be allowed a small glimpse into people's lives. I am really starting to enjoy people here, and grow more and more excited at the prospect of being accepted as a member. How is it that a few minor inappropriate things are allowed to taint the entire site in the minds of some of us? I am very confident that this small set back will be corrected. Not only because the moderators are good fair people, but also because the people who come here in general are good fair people. I choose to see that the good FAR exceeds any bad here. I choose to focus on the positive instead of the negative. :0) Maybe if we all choose to set our sights on the positive and let the negative go, then this will once again rise to the great sight some of you reminisce it once was. Personally, I think it couldn't have fallen too far from its throne because as a stranger, I was welcomed and accepted. If a stranger, whose love of writing far exceeds her talent, can be so accepted, then who could not be? I guess I just wanted to say to those old timers that as a newbie, I've seen so much good here. :0) Also, to those of you who feel you may have participated in such a thread that has been discussed here, or maybe even started one. I say don't feel badly! Live and learn, yes? I for one would never hold any ill temper towards you or hold you in a negative light. My mouth and words have gotten me in trouble on more than one occasion, and I think I'd be hard pressed to find anyone here who couldn't say the same. :0) Isn't that what The Pen is about? Accepting us for our weakness as well as our strengths? I believe so. :0) So, there you have the thoughts of a new girl... ~Salinye
lumpenproletariat Posted April 17, 2003 Report Posted April 17, 2003 Summing up what basically needs to be done: - Don't treat the cabaret room like a General Discussion. It is a cabaret room in a grand castle dedicated to creative writing. IMO.
Peredhil Posted April 17, 2003 Report Posted April 17, 2003 Just to point out, we HAVE a chat board in the Shoutbox Rune so graciously provided, and additionally realtime chat capabilities on IRC in the galaxynet #thePen room...
Brute Posted April 18, 2003 Report Posted April 18, 2003 Brute smiles and gives Salinye a wink. Thank you for a refreshing and wonderfully optimistic view of the Pen. It does me good to hear the words from someone who is new to the Pen, as I'm sure it does for most everyone else.
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