On Depression

[Peredhil]

what an eloquent way of phrasing that.

 

Withholds pity per request, but hugs anyway

[Starlight]

Brute, we seem to have had similar experiences in this. I completely agree.

[Ayshela]

i find this thread haunting me at the oddest moments, (much as i generally wish to not post my doubtless unpopular opinions here), and usually with a feeling of irritation.

 

i think the truest thing said was that depression is individual. Some of the symptomology is consistent, which enables it to be diagnosed. Some of the personal effects are similar, so we can generally understand each other when we talk about it. The experience of it, however, is as individual as the people experiencing it.

 

The comments i find waking me up at night are "the illusion of helplessness" and "get over it". Helplessness can certainly be an illusion. It often is not. Given the fact that my son reads this forum i won't go into the details of when helplessness is a physical fact. "Get over it" bothers me because i was told that repeatedly by callous, uncaring people in the aftermath of those situations in which helplessness was not an illusion.

 

Which does not in any way mean that i think anyone here is callous or uncaring, but it occurred to me that this is a subject people tend to try to agree on more than they disagree, because it's painful, it's uncomfortable. There's stuff here i definitely agree with but haven't wanted to post a "me too" and yet i wondered, if this wakes me at night, perhaps i'm not the only one to rub against this and say "ouch". If i don't post that, because i don't acknowledge my emotional ouches in public any more than i cry, ever, maybe i'm not the only one avoiding doing so?

 

i don't know. :-\

[Peredhil]

Yeah, I can see the insensitivity of the "get over it" statement, although I've been on both sides of it.

 

When someone is whining about a situation for sympathy but refusing to act in any way to change it, "get over it" seems to lurk ready to lips, particularly if the listener's perception is that they are going through something worse. Heh, depression by competition! Mine is worse than yours.

As a champion whiner...

Anyway.

 

I can't speak for Zool, but when I read 'illusion of helplessness', I took it to be an acknowledgement that there is always self-control and choice in my life.

I may chose to live, I may chose to be trapped by obligations and responsibilities or moral choices. But it is always a choice in my mind.

I choose to limit my actions and choices by my perceptions of "Christian", "Soldier", "Husband", "Father", "Citizen", etc, etc.

I choose to comply with other's demands because I want to avoid hunger, thirst, pain, humiliation, jail, death - or these things for those I've chosen for whom I've chosen to be responsible.

But it's always a choice on my part, in my mind.

Thus I am where I have chosen in the past to be, and my choices determine my future. Everything has consequences, and in my opinion, forgiveness doesn't necessarily prevent them. I can forgive someone for jumping off the cliff, but they are going to face the consequence of their action none-the-less.

 

It's a dangerous place to be - if I truly really believe that my life is a chain of choices of actions, and reactions - because then there is no one to blame except me.

It's also a freeing thought, in a lonely way...

 

But either way, it makes feelings of powerless a choice, and an illusion behind which I hide.

 

How Zool meant it, I'm not sure, that's just how I took it.

 

Whether this perception is valid for others, I cannot claim, but it seems to help me.

 

shrugs

 

but then, that's what discussion is about, eh?

[Gwaihir]

I think "get over it" can be a great comment, but it doesn't apply well to you. That is some people have issues that are not only insolvable, but just are not big deals. They should indeed get over it, and sometimes I find that it can help (me) to be told to do so.

[Chanz]

I agree that "get over it" is very useful. But problems that may be huge for one person, another may see as little. What hurts someone will not another. You see we are all different, and we all react differently to things.It's easy for an outsider to tell someone to get over something, that they have no idea about, then it is to try and understand what that person is TRUELY feeling.

By you saying that some peoples problems are not big deals , means that you do not understand it. I think we all have to be more understanding of peoples problems and the way that they see them.

[Ayshela]

mmm

i've been afraid to poke my head back in here in case i got it chopped off. i'm glad that's not the case.

 

i do agree that we choose where we are, even when we would rather not. :-\

 

My objection to the "illusion of helplessness" does not arise out of the belief that we do not choose our every action and our every response. It arises rather out of the simple knowledge that choices can be limited to an intolerable degree by others such that the choices you are left with are not really choices.

 

When you're chained to the bed and forced to choose between begging to be abused in the hope that they will let you go when they're done, or refusing knowing that they'll simply do it anyway and either leave you to die or kill you when they're done, where is helplessness an illusion? Being given a "choice" between the intolerable and the deadly on the presupposition that the intolerable will not be equally deadly - seems to me if you have no means of bettering your situation then helplessness is not an illusion, choice is.

 

i do understand that sometimes we have choices we do not see. i still wrestle daily with the pain and guilt of having believed my family as i was growing up, of having believed that asking for help would have been worse than staying and merely surviving, or having believed that no one would believe me. At the time i had no reason to doubt them and circumstances had been manipulated to ensure that i would draw that conclusion. Where the greater failure lies, i don't know. And truth be told, i don't know that it matters. i do know, now, that i failed to see options then that would have made a difference in my life. i try now to make sure that neither my children nor i repeat that failure.

 

and sometimes... sometimes i still find myself swimming with the sharks in the pools of despair. At least now i know enough to trust the hands extended to help me pull myself back out.

[Alaeha]

Hmm... Somehow I wasn't really aware of this thread until just now, yet it seems to have almost everyone involved. Don't know whether it can be called fashionable or not, but I apologize for my tardiness in the discussion.

 

The use of the phrase "Get over it" really does bother me... Not so much because it's entirely unnecessary, but because the people most likely to use it are those who are either severely annoyed with (or just generally not pleasant toward) the person it's being directed at. It can be remarkably useful at times, but like all tools (and that's really what it and all other words and phrases are... tools) it has a great potential for abuse, and the misuse of such a phrase would come across as callous. Misused in such a way, it would serve only to further isolate and depress the person in question as another of their friends seemed to turn on them.

 

But be that as it may, the idea that depression is (a ) not serious, or (b ) something that never needs external help, strikes me as being poorly thought through.

 

Think about it for a moment... When you visit the dentist and he drills your teeth, doesn't he use anesthetics? When surgeons cut you open, do they do so while you're awake and feeling? Even when people have "lesser" pain, such as pulled muscles, sprained ankles, and such, they take pain killers. Depression is painful. I've been there, so have many members of my family. Emotional pain is far worse than physical pain, in my not terribly humble opinion. So why is it considered shameful or unacceptable for people to take prescribed medication to alleviate that, when people take drugs for a simple stuffed nose that isn't even so much a pain as an inconvenience?

 

Granted, not everyone needs to take medicine to get over depression, but to shun those that do or to say that no one does is not only uninformed, but an application of double standards. This is what seems to me to be callous in this situation. And as to the comment made earlier about Psychiatrists... If there's no one else to talk to, and that's what you really need... to talk it through and get an honest perspective on the situation, the psychiatrist is worth every penny.

 

Just my thoughts. I think I've addressed what was bothering me... I don't intend to offend anyone, so please don't take what I've said as offensive. But please don't ignore me either. I've been hurt too, so please don't try and tell me that I don't know what I'm talking about.

 

Wow... I really need to try and rein myself in, or I'm going to start treating this as a debate, rather than a discussion... perhaps this thread should be ended before it gets ugly... Or perhaps I'll just have to avoid it in the future. I'll try and restrain myself...

[Quincunx]

Alaeha, Ayshela--you can't hope to not offend me. Nothing enrages me more than the conceit and the realities of helplessness, and I'm not sophisticated enough to do more than seize helplessness by the scruff of the neck and drag it onto a better course, mangling the person. . .and that's in the best case. Articulate rage is a survival emotion that comes at the expense of all others--I had to learn how to cower, and it's so much less effective. . .

 

I don't understand you.

[dragonqueen]

Depression is a part of life. Sometimes there's a reason, and one has feelings like grief, anger, loneliness, etc. that come under the heading of 'depression'. Other times, one is simply enormously depressed. There's no other description for it than depression. Angsty feelings can be a wonderful inspiration for writing. Being simply depressed in general is an indulgence. It's being lazy and instead of doing something to get onesself out of it, sitting around saying "Oh, poor me, I'm so depressed, I have no friends, nobody likes me, oh poor me." It's almost more self pity. When I get that way, I find doing something I enjoy, even just reading a good book, cheers me up.

 

Anyway, didn't mean to offend anyone. If you don't like what I said, just ignore me. Simply my view on depression, I think. To sum it up, depression is a part of life, and I believe one should always take action against it.

[Solivagus]

I've only just read this thread, but I thought I'd chuck in my view anyway, while I've got it straight in my head.

 

Depression itself, in my opinion, is something to be got over as quickly as possible. But it must also be experienced. The feelings it sends through you, the messages it brings you...they help you to see. Everything is so much clearer, you see what the people you saw everyday before you were depressed actually mean. You see them say they're sorry, and you can see it as if it's written over their faces, you can see that they're lying.

 

You can fully understand what they mean, the garbage that cluttered the view before depression has all been moved. When people lie, you see it. When people say they are sorry you can see that what they really mean is "We don't actually care, we just came along for the free buffet after." It's invigorating to finally see the side of the world that some part of you, before depression, somehow hid.

 

Some people are lucky of course. Some people are able to see both sides without having to step through depression at all. My congrats to them. Then again I could just be rambling, maybe I'm the only one who didn't see both sides. Ah well, my view has been posted, hope it wasn't a waste of space.

[Ayshela]

nope, not wasted at all.

 

Quincunx - can't hope to not offend you, meaning we HAVE offended you somehow? *blink* You don't understand... what specifically, if possible, do you not understand? Without knowing that i'd not have the faintest idea where to begin to explain.

[Regel]

Depression: The feeling that makes neutral sound good.

 

 

Why is it that we deny this emotion? We deny its importance, deny its merits, deny its necessity and deny that it is part of a healing process. Pain is a way of preventing further damage to an area that has received damage. This is an important tool for survival. If it hurts we rest it, examine it, establish the cause, try to remedy the problem and allow the damaged area the time and conditions to promote healing. Sometimes we can't self examine or diagnose the problem ourselves and we seek medical help.

 

Depression is emotional pain. It does indeed hurt. Sometimes it's supposed to hurt (i.e. Death of a love one) but sometimes there appears to be no cause just the effect. It still hurts and sometimes it retreats on it's own like Quincunx post suggested but sometimes it deepens and spirals into despair. SEEK MEDICAL ATTENTION!

 

They say that time heals all wounds. Yes unless you die first. Some people have no choice but to seek out professional help. It doesn't always lead to a cure but sometimes disease (mental or physical) can't be helped or cured. We still seek out medical professionals and specialists.

 

Hope is a powerful weapon against depression. Sometimes that's all a person has been them and the abyss. Tread gently folks it seems like this topic has turned into a minefield.

[Loki Wyrd]

I haven't really been following this thread, but oh well. All I have to say is that depression is great...just look at the Great Depression, the name says it all. Now if there was a Great Happiness to break out I might be willing to change my tune, but until then I'm sticking on depression like...erm...like....flies on shit.

[The Big Pointy One]

I've kept a scant eye on this topic, and like so many other discussions on human nature through and throughout, there is but a simple answer. Everyone is different. There are common trends from person to group to person to infinite. Or something like that. Lot's of people may feel in the same position, but for so many, it's so different. I am one of those many people who are depressed out of their gourd, but don't exactly know why (well, aside from stark loneliness) Discussions could go on forever, and well, so long as we know that we won't ever accomplish anything on the matter, I suppose it's fine.

 

So what have I done here? Aside from point out what I hope is obvious? Nothing, really. That's me ^.^

[Solivagus]

Lonliness brings you depression? You're right, everyone is different

[Alaeha]

Loneliness by definition is a bad feeling. It's the unfulfilled desire for company.

 

If you don't desire company, and don't have it, that's called solitude.

 

</Snob>

 

My inner English Professor strikes again!

[Ayshela]

LOL

true, and this is why we nearly didn't buy you the required dictionary for classes..

 

loneliness can be one of the most devastating things, though. i found it bothered me a bit to *be* alone and wish i weren't, but it bothered me far more to be totally alone in the midst of a crowd.

[Kendricke]

From another perspective, depression is simply an extension of pain and anguish. Frustration of the soul, some would say. It's a matter of hurting in a way which simply does not run its course, since its course is self-feeding.

 

The real meat of the issue isn't the pain itself, but rather the cause of the pain. By this, I don't mean anything specific or visceral, but rather the generality of pain itself.

 

You see, pain itself is almost always caused by resistance.

 

Resisting changes which have occured within one's life can cause tremendous amounts of anguish. It's not the changes themselves which are causing the depression, but rather the inability to accept such changes which cause the pain. Just as muscles which are more toned and flexible will adapt to resistances easier, so too will a flexible and open outlook adapt more easily to encounters of change.

 

Consider. Whether or not it's a loss of a favored job, the death of a good friend, or the ending of a close relationship or friendship, the ultimate burden of pain lies within the individual who chooses to deny or resist such a change which has occurred.

 

Learning to cope with change is the first step toward conquering depression. Maintaining a more open outlook on life and the opportunities presented is a good first step toward learning to cope with change.

 

Remember, one cannot push the river. Don't try to force issues or resist changes over which one has little control. There is definately a calm which can only be achieved once one has accepted that not all events within this life can be overcome by a sheer force of will. Sometimes the best action one can take is no action.

 

Then again, this is simply a differing perspective.

[Alzorath]

Hmm... I don't get a lot of chances to read the forums - so it took me a while to catch up on this thread heh...

 

Well, first my experiences with this topic -

 

I started having the signs of depression a bit before my early teens (around 10-12 years of age). I did not have any reasons to be depressed, nor do I feel I do now - at least not any reasons that would make an logical sense.

 

When I was in 7th grade, I was diagnosed with clinical depression - and told to take some little blue pills (don't remember their name) - they didn't work very well, and thus I quit taking them after a few months (why pump your body full of something that is serving no purpose).

 

I have found over time that while I do feel depressed 90% of the time, it isn't something that can just be "gotten over" or that you can just work through a given situation to resolve it. Some days it's a burden to get out of bed, or to just take the next physical step - sometimes it would feel better to just give up and stop right there. Other days the burden is lighter, and I can usually at least feign a pleasant attitude to those around me.

 

Through this, I have learned there are differences between sadness, vulnerability, depression, weakness, etc.

 

I think what's being discussed mainly here is mainly things ranging from sadness to reactions to traumatic experiences (which while can still be called depression, can take multiple routes and is dealt with differently from what I can tell).

 

Depression itself - the illness - is something many people have to live with, current medication may be a way, although it is considered only semi-successful. Some people do just have to "deal with it" - I know I have for the past 10 or so years, I know I'll last another 10 or so years... you just have to know yourself well enough that you can tell yourself "just keep going, it's all in your head, you'll feel at least a little better in a few days."

 

I've stared death in the face, I've had all the opportunities to "give up" - but I don't, because I have things that keep me here. One of those is the belief that ANYTHING can be done with sheer willpower, and I make it my personal goal to prove that at the very least to myself. If you can resist the urge when you see the chance to just be free of it all - you can make it.

 

Sorry...I'm rambling now.

 

Basically - There are types of depression, some you can "get over" or find a resolution to, some you can't. All you can do is keep moving forward, get up in the morning, force yourself to take that next step instead of just stopping there and letting go. If you see a way to overcome the feeling, go for it - if you don't, then learn to adapt - you have so much to give the world, even with these emotions tearing at the inside of your heart and mind.

[Ayshela]

and if you can believe you have something to give the world.. something positive.. you've got a leg up on the battle.

*shrug*

[Kendricke]

Alzorath,

 

Of course physiological differences in body makeup can make depression harder or easier to live with, much as having flat feet can make running much more difficult. However, it is possible to live through the illness.

 

No, it's not something you merely "get over", but it is something you can learn to deal with, and deal with effectively.

[Alzorath]

I wouldn't really associate it as much with things like "nearsightedness" or continually degrading stuff....

 

From my experience it's more along the lines of arthritis/chronic migranes/etc. some days it's better some days it's worse.

 

(and the thing I put at the end of my last post = basically what I tell myself to keep myself going - a good friend of mine told me something similar and I kinda adopted it)