A Question to the Masses.

[Ozymandias]

The crowd mills about as animatedly as ususal. Some juggle, some still chew at quill tips thoughtfully, blank paper in front of them, even at the bar. Many, though, look at the podium on stage expectantly. The Loremaster himself is scheduled to speak, and the word is he wants to talk to everyone. They continue to mutter amongst and to themselves, not knowing when he is supposed to arrive.

 

The assembled very nearly start to drift back to empty writing desks and other muses when the microphone on on stage suddenly shrieks loudly. An embarassed Ozymandias gingerly pulls the mic stand back into place.

 

"My fellow... dreamers," he trails off, thoughtfully. "Yes, I think that fits," mumbles the old man to himself. Quickly, he refocuses, and speaks out loudly again, voice echoing across the Cabaret.

 

"It has come to my attention of late, that we, The Pen is Mightier than the Sword, are not giving people what they want and what they need. Obviously, we need to change that. So, I ask you, The Elders, you, the Bards, you, The Heralds, Poets and Troubadors, you, The Quill-Bearers, Pages, and Initiates:

 

What can we do for you? I see around me a wonderful community of friends, and of truly passionate, caring people, but I see one that fails more than a bit in its mission satement- Helping all of us grow as writers.

 

So I put forth the question to ALL of you- What do you you still need? What can the Pen do for you?" I want very much to know everyone- and I mean everyone!-'s thoughts on the matter. Thank you."

[Lady Celes Crusader]

The young Troubadour raises up politely her arms and gets the Loremaster's attention. She clears her thraot before she proceeds.

 

- "The only thing that I want to brought to your attention,", she starts, "is that we need to create another forum in the Manor of Tongues that is consecrated to language oriented talks."

 

Ozymandias looks over Celes and have a look that inquered more elaboration.

 

-"Actually", replies the Frenchie, "the French forum is kinda messy. Among the stories, there's stuff that shouldn't been there in the first place. For example, Lord Jechum..."

 

- "PRRRRRRRRRROOOOAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWNNNN!!!!"

 

Cambronne, runs over his mistress and purrs while rubbing his head on her knees. The crowd chuckles a bit by the impromptu of the scene but the Loremaster quickly ask for order and invite the cat lover to resume her thoughts.

 

- "Sorry", sighted Celes, " Where I was? Oh yes. For example, Lord Jechum puts up an help request because he was curious about a French song and wanted to know what the lyrics mean. Right now, the said request and replies are in the French board, among the works, although it should be moved to a board where tongue related topics can be brought upon. Another example of the purpose to this new section is that foreign language artists and their works could be introduced as well. Right now, Serge Gainsbourg is gaining lots of interest in the English speaking community and I believe he deserves to be well known. That way, the work can be separated from the chatters."

[Wyvern]

*AHEM*

 

Wyvern clears his throat for the thirty-third time in the evening, flailing a hand urgently in the air and practicaly jumping up and down in his seat. Ozymandias groans, rubs a migrain that is throbbing on his forehead, and finally decides to point a finger towards Wyvern...

 

"Yes Wyvern, what things would you like to improve the guild...?"

 

The overgrown lizard grins an enormous grin of razor sharp fangs, then takes out a list from a pocket in his coat. He undose the binding of the list and the incredibly long sheet of paper rolls out... so long that part of it rolls right out the entrance of the Cabaret Room and continues on it's seemingly endless path. Wyvern gleefully clears his throat as the Loremaster lets out a stressfull moan. It looked like it was going to be a long night...

 

"Well..." hisses Wyvern "Here are some urgent matters that I think need to be implented into the Pen immediatly...

 

#1) The Elder of Initiates should get twice the salary of all the other Elders combined.

 

#2) The Elder of Initiates should be addressed as 'The majestic and handsome lizard that one can only dream to become as cunning as'. Failure to do so will result in immediate expulsion.

 

#3) The Elder of Initiates should get an 'Anti-Melba Mallet'.

 

#4) Several holidays should be made in honor of the Elder of Initiates.

 

#5) Several appreciation days should also be made honoring said wyvern... I mean Elder!

 

#6) The Elder of Initiates should be given longer lunch breaks (meaning he won't be there 90% of the time).

 

#7) The gift of a truck load of gold to the Elder of Initiates should be a requirement for joining..."

 

Two large men in black suites grab Wyvern by the tail and begin dragging him out of the room as the lizard continues reading off his increasingly self-centered and incredibly egoistic list. The overgrown lizard cries out "Did I mention getting massages from beautifull women yet?!" before being thrown out of the window. He lands in a trash can, in which there lies a huge discarded pile of his own I.O.Us... Ozymandias sighs, prays that the trash disposal agency will come along soon, and clears his throat...

 

"Next!"

 

------------------------------

Almost a Dragon...

"My life is one big crime, I try to scheme through it." -Common, "The 6th Sense"

Owner of the Decanter of Endless Booze.

[Nyyark]

Excuse me sir...

 

I think that a more detailed system of guidelines would be helpful, because as of now, the only thing I know I'm supposed to do is get promoted. I guess the Elders are supposed to get things done, though that is a rather vague definition, and it seems as if the voting members have no purpose. Perhaps a few bills should enter the Minstrel Hall?

[Guest Lord Seth Exodus]

I think Nyyark has the right idea. More structure, specific dutys and such. And on the topic of promotions, some of the initiates are getting restless; well, maybe it's just me, but still...

 

-Lord Seth Exodus

[Nyyark]

I don't think sleep is the soultion either...

[Guest Xradion]

Yes, I agree (though sleep kicks butt). Anyway, I think that promotions are long overdue here at The Pen. Wyvern told me he'd get on it when he had a chance, though.

[Nyyark]

Perhaps a set promotion date would be good, you could have all disscusson come to a close at that date. It works for the senate of the US =)

[Falcon2001]

CAKE! LOTS AND LOTS OF CAKE!

 

And ice cream too, definately.

 

Cioden Darkeye

Quill-Bearer - The Pen is Mightier than the Sword

President of the Peredhil Fan Club

Owner of the Reply Raven - Enemy to all those who never post responses

Ashaman - WoT - Blitz II

Council - The Hunters - Blitz II

Leisure Officer - SFV Ultima - Beta

[The Big Pointy One]

Yeah! I cast another vote for cake!

 

~CAKE~ !CAKE! *CAKE* ^CAKE^ CAKE

 

~ahem~.

 

BigPointyStick

-----------------

Wielder of the BPS

Companion of Mr.Bunny

"I can throw knives!"

[Guest DoctorEvil65]

BEER!!!!!

 

Oh yeah, and we need less structure....and we need to do away with ranks!!!!!

[Guest Rezure]

Yeah, more structure is about the last thing we need. It's good to have titles, it's kind of humorous. But to talk of those titles actually meaning something, or to talk of set promotion dates is taking it in a completely wrong direction. Next we'll have year-end employee reviews and contract negotiations for God's sake!

 

Things I would like for the pen to do, though

 

1. Hire some members who are dumb so members like me can feel somehow superior =). Also so we can make short offhand comments which seem humorous only to ourselves (this is the part of the AMUBB I liked the most. I also liked saying things which I knew were going to be misinterpreted by some people. That was my even-more favourite part.)

 

2. I like the discussion things a lot (like the thing Zool started and the thing Ozy started) We need more of them. Though that's not really a thing for the pen to do, I guess.

 

3. Critic's corner - should be done away with or amended. Critiquing things is hard and unrewarding. Criticising things is easy AND fun, but I don't think that's currently encouraged, due to the rather fragile egos of some members, and well, nobody particularly enjoys being criticized, especially since none of us are professional critics, so it would look like we were just trying to be meanspirited and unfriendly. Saying "this is good" or "keep writing" or "tell me more" can be said in the post itself, or, in the case of those (to me, rather annoying) rp threads in the greenroom topics for them.

 

4. And, of course, like everyone else says, food, money, drinks,women, cars ("and he liked to frequent bars, pubs and discos.")

 

***Rezure***

[Wyvern]

At the mentioning of "BEER!!!!", Wyvern's immediate reflexes cause him to jump straight out of the trash can and rush as fast as his legs can carry him to the source of sound... This is fortunate for the overgrown lizard, as no sooner does he hop out of the bin then the trash men dump the container into their disposal outlet and it's contents are immediatly crushed. Had Wyvern idely rested in the can, flipping through the discarded smut magazine he had happened to find there, he would have been squashed to little cube no bigger then the average portion size of your local fancy restaurant (and that's tiny!)

 

Sprinting at an unnaturaly high speed for a lizard, Wyvern zooms past a visiting Lumpenproletariat, his sheer velocity causing the poor Ancient's right shoe to suddenly combust into flames. He also soars by Lewis and Simon, nearly running over the two dumbfounded rodents in the process. Finally, he arrives back in Cabaret Room and rushes up to Doctor Evil, stopping for a moment in shock that for once it isn't Brute that's calling for beer.

 

Sighing to himself and wipping out his Decanter of Endless Booze, Wyvern pours Doctor Evil a tall glass and then collapses into a nearby chair, muttering:

 

"I third the vote on cake!"

 

OOC: A side note on promotions: the Elders apologize for the delay. We would have gotten them done much sooner, but since it's Summer, internet connections have been sort of touch-and-go with a number of members, Elders included. Never the less, we've almost finished the process and will make the promotions as soon as possible. Thank you all for your patience.

 

------------------------------

Almost a Dragon...

"My life is one big crime, I try to scheme through it." -Common, "The 6th Sense"

Owner of the Decanter of Endless Booze.

[Canid]

I know I'm not a member (not yet anyway.... *grin*), but I could not stand to see Rezure's post without making comment...

I am a big fan of critiques... I beg for people to critique my work, no matter how amature they may be. Therefore I would never want to see the critic's corner gone, even if I've never seen it.

[Lady Celes Crusader]

The Frenchie laughs when the beer is suggested.

 

- "Don't you know that the Wyvern have an excellent wine cellar?", she ask

 

Everyone turn their head toward her with a "How-do-ya-know" look, making the Troubadour flush in embarrassement,

 

- "Him and I shared an excellent bottle of wine", she answers shyly

 

- "He must had been out of his mind that day", replies Ozymandas

 

Celes scratches her cat's head while Wyvern looks up, whistling an absent-minded tune.

 

OOC: The critic's corner is indeed not used enough. the thing is that poeple are writing their critic right after the author's original work. While its allright for peotry, its problematic in the Assembly room, where sometimes, several chapters story are cut by critics. I rather see a "Good work' than a "It sucks". We mean to not only help each other to write but also to encourage them to do so.

[Peredhil]

"It sucks" is never a valid criticism, it is only abuse.

 

In my original conception, posting a posting post immediately in the thread was just to let people know you were reading, and that you had a feeling response to the piece. It can be pretty lonely and dangerous putting your heart out in black and white and wondering if anyone can relate - or is even reading. I had great sympathy for Falcon's Reply Raven.

 

The reason I made the Critic's Corner was for 'negative' criticsim or indepth criticism. I have this terrible us/them view of the world sometimes which I picked up in theater. All corrections are made in rehearsals or behind the scenes. The show is presented to the audience and the cast present a united front.

 

Thus, spelling/grammar corrections - Critic's Corner. Anything that might be construed as negative MUST have a reason attached, and be expressed as your opinion. Try to include an option or solution as well.

 

"In my opinion, thought it sucked because in my experience people just don't react like that, they usually react like this" or, "in my opinion, it would've been stronger in the 7th and 9th lines if you added a syllable - try reading it out loud when you're done as a double-check."

 

In my opinion, that's the sort of reason Nyyark made his Draft Room - to show allow people to develop a finished product that could be displayed at the Pen, and to show the interactive growth/feedback process so everyone could learn. If the Critic's Corner was used properly, there would be no need for his Draft Room.

 

None of us are professional critics. But all of us are sensitive, creative people, with life experience that we can share.

 

And that's one of the foundations the Jechum and I built into the Pen when we moved it here.

 

Just my two cents. I'm a retired harried Ancient with no vote, and you listen to me at your peril.

 

-Peredhil

[Ozymandias]

He's serious. You get close enough to listen and you'll end up with a nastier bite than y'get from Falcon.

 

But don't worry. He's all gums anyway. ;>)

 

I just wanted to let everyone know I apologize for the slow response on my part, but it's been a mucho busy week for me, so I am hoping to hop on the computer in earnest tomorrow. For everyone who's been trying to contact me- I'll get in touch with you too. Promise.

 

As for the Critic's Corner and other technical concerns, I look forward to having full admin privleges very soon and will gladly wade in up to my elbows [especially since I've gotten the distinct feeling that my schedule is the most flexible out of the Elders]. And we shall move all Eldership concerns along as fast as we can, as well.

 

Thank you all again, n' see you tomorrow!

[Guest Xradion]

        I'm with Peredhil. Forgive my comments about ranks earlier. They aren't really important. However, getting feedback IS! I personally think that all writers need to get good feedback from others. That's one of the reasons I joined the Pen. Did the work make sense to you? Was there a problem with word choice? How might I improve this passage of my poem/story? These sort of question/answer sessions can be immensely useful. I think if we work together with one another, we can ALL become better critics and writers. Anyway, that's just my opinion, although I think it is also an implicit part of what the Pen is about.

 

Xradion,

The Horny Druid,

Scholar of the Ancient Arts,

Holder of the Eye of Odin.

"The only emperor is the emperor of ice-cream."

-Wallace Stevens

"When at home, do as the Homans do." –Xradion

[Guest DoctorEvil65]

""It sucks" is never a valid criticism, it is only abuse.".........Peredhil

 

Oh, dear old enemy......."It sucks" is the ONLY valid form of criticism

[Nyyark]

What stronger critism than Ranking? I think ranks are a vary good way to show that the Members and Elders aprove of what is being done at The Pen.

[Yui-chan]

Oh, certainly ranking is a criticism, Nyyark. But is it constructive criticism?? To me, our rank set is the equivalent of saying "Your writing sucks, but not as much as that sucks." or "Yours doesn't suck as much as his stuff does." or "Yours is good, but his stuff sucks."

 

That is, and always has been, my (very publicized ) complaint with ranking. It's not individual; it's comparative. Rather than critiquing your work on its own, ranking you compares the lump sum of what you write to mine and Orlan's, Gyrfalcon's, Ozymandias', etcetc. Does all your work have exactly the same level of excellence? Do all your pieces have the precise same flaws and strengths? What do you learn from having it all lumped together, weighed, averaged, and then placed in a rank order with everyone else? Does that tell you anything about what works and what doesn't in Jester's Game or Day Dream?

 

I don't think it does. I'm afraid it just says "Nope, you're not as good as {Member X}, since you didn't get as high a rank as he/she did." I find that to be counterproductive in the literary arts. How does that kind of blank criticism help you as an author? How does knowing that you didn't rank as 'high' as someone else make you feel? Are you the same kind of author as he/she is?

 

For that matter, is it really fair to compare any writers? Who would deserve the higher 'rank' if you want to compare Terry Pratchett to Shakespeare? Stephen King to Robert Frost? Dr. Spock to Catherine Coulter? They are all completely different, apples and oranges and compressor pumps and rhodadendron (sp?). Each has a different style and method, and I'd say each is very good at his style and method. Because I like Shakespearian sonnets more than twisted English humor, does that mean that Shakespeare deserves the higher rank than Pratchett? Because I haven't the patience to read about child psychology, does that mean that Doctor Spock is not useful as a writer? Or that he's not as good as Ms. Coulter? No, I don't think that would be fair or accurate. Do you?

 

Critique works. Critique specific lines, stanzas, spelling errors, paragraphs, plotlines, rhythm. Critique bland characters or dull settings. Critique a specific work with specific examples of specific strengths and weaknesses and specific suggestions of how to improve them.

 

Don't critique the person behind the work. For god's sake, don't critique them in such a way as to make them feel superior/inferior to any of their peers.

 

If the Pen requires ranking to function, then make them administrative ranks, and not skill ranks. Make them based purely on activity level, duties, responsibilities, or the like. Clarify that they are not a reflection on writing ability, because if they are, then the Pen is telling Member A that she is just not as good as Member B, and I don't think that the Pen wants to do that.

 

I don't know if this brainstorm has actually given any useful information to our esteemed elders on the thread topic, but I think I have finally come to realize the solution to my age-old, semi-neurotic intense hatred for the current rank system. Maybe it's a question of perception or terminology, but I have always dispised the way it seemed to me to compare everyone's writing skill. I was once told that it was necessary for forum administration, and there the solution was, staring me in the face. I never saw it until now.

 

If the Pen wants ranks, then please consider divorcing them from 'skill-level' judgements and instead making them 'administrative-level' classifiers completely. Use quantitative criteria for advancement, for example, number of posts, number of threads, time as a member, 'activity level' or something.

 

Wow, this has become painfully long. I'm sorry. I hope I've presented something worth thinking about. *winces and climbs down from the soapbox*

[Guest Rezure]

-Criticism: Actually, even if DoctorEvil is kidding, he is right. Let's face it, you either like something or you don't and only after that do you have to make up reasons for why that is so. Take Xradion, for example. I like a lot of his poetry, and I don't like a lot of it as well (translation - xradion has two times a lot of poems posted). My chief complaint about the ons I don't like is that they don't have rhyme or rhythm. But then again, that's also true of the ones I really like of his, so that must not be the criteria at all. Really, critiquing is trying to logically describe an instinct, and that doesn't ever work.

 

-Talking to a Wall: I know what Peredhil means - one sometimes thinks noone is reading what one posts. But really, couldn't we just have a "read times" counter to remedy that?

 

-Ranking: I don't see it as being somehow a crosssectional (as Yui says) or longitudinal (as Nyyark says) representation of our members. Rank is something that we definitely need to keep. I think if we all regarded our ranks in the same way that we regard the British monarchy (I mean the concept, not the particular members, thank you) we'd be a lot better off. In terms of meaning something, I really doubt it. If this stuff didn't interest one, one wouldn't really come here, or would come but not stay for very long, so I think ranking is irrelevant in those terms.

 

-More on Ranking: Whatever you do don't destroy the ranking. "Quill-Bearer" sounds much cooler than does "member"

 

###Rezure###

[Guest Zephryin]

While, on the one hand, the titles should serve a purpose, on the other, they shouldn't be taken too seriously. Government? Jobs? What's next, taxes? I'm not trying to be scornful, I'm just saying that this isn't exactly a formal organization. At least, that's not the impression I got.

 

PS - I apologize for my semi-absence. The last semester ended and my home connection sucks, so I haven't been able to log on much.

 

-=================-

ZephryinKnight of The Constellation

Initiate of the Pen

-=================-

"Draw thy sword, that, if my speech offend a noble heart, thy arm may do thee justice: here is mine."

[Guest Rezure]

I love it when people agree with me.

[Guest Zephryin]

Oh wow, Rez got done with his in the time it took me to just proofread mine, heh... Edited by: Zephryin at: 5/28/02 4:44:21 pm