A haunting ration of fear

[Preprise]

Your clout and the unbearable weight

of heavy wind sucking worn

old trails and inroads

or imagined selflessness

clutching the noose of a soft illusion

 

Feed from the threat, suckle its nipple

nuzzle the mouth of the warm canon

 

When new roots lift an atrophied gate

seeping through the torn wreckage

the freight train remembers

a haunting ration of fear

 

Derailed at the fleeting moment of truth

freed from the threat that cleanses the breech

It releases the shores of deep dreams

[Silver WInd]

For one whom was so found of questioning my own line breaks, I must say I found this one

 

of heavy wind sucking worn

old trails and inroads

particuarly awakard, but then perhaps that was your intention.

 

I rather liked this stanza

 

When new roots lift an atrophied gate

seeping through the torn wreckage

the freight train remembers

a haunting ration of fear

[Preprise]

anyone else?

[reverie]

You have good tone control, but I don't see to what end. Seems just a touch too inaccessible and one-sided. Meaning you get it because you wrote it, but I don't.

 

 

Your clout and the unbearable weight

of heavy wind sucking worn

old trails and inroads (Can't see it too well. The Image you are trying to create appears convoluted to me. Maybe "sucking" is a poor choice. do you mean that the wind is clearing these paths, making them, or just blowing through them as yet another traveler would while treading over their well traveled metaphorical mental paths.)

or imagined selflessness

clutching the noose of a soft illusion (abstraction after abstraction -- aye the risk of writing in 2nd person -- better title might help)

 

Feed from the threat, suckle its nipple

nuzzle the mouth of the warm canon (Again better title might help some, maybe, but why so strong an indictment? What's motivating your speaker? Qualify his anger / venom )

 

When new roots lift an atrophied gate

seeping through the torn wreckage (cliche, and I thought we were going for stroll? Do roots seep? Water seeps into them and the roots have just lifting something, seeping is more of a flowing verb)

the freight train remembers

a haunting ration of fear (nice phrase, but you're attached it to a personified train. Why so much emphasis on our train friend. He doesn't seem to me to be the one your speaker is directing his/her indictment towards.)

 

Derailed at the fleeting moment of truth

freed from the threat that cleanses the breech

It releases the shores of deep dreams (what's the antecedent for "it." Maybe that should be your title)

Edited November 7, 2007 by reverie

[Da_Yog]

I have the same basic problem with this poem that I have with all your poems: you don't use any punctuation. Why not? Fear, aversion, unfamiliarity? It's like writing a poem with one hand tied behind your back. You spend so much time focusing on word choice, imagery, line breaks but totally ignore punctuation. Good use of punctuation is one of the best ways to direct the readers attention to a particular word or line.

 

I.e. "nuzzle the mouth of the warm canon". This line I quite liked a lot. The intentional juxtaposition of canon for cannon provides a nice twist; however, I think most readers will ignore this as an intentional switch because you, as the poet, do not bring their attention to it. Changing the line to, "nuzzle the mouth of the warm—canon" would force your reader to stop just before and after canon. The reader has to pause before because of the dash and then after because of the line break. In essence you would force your reader to examine that word in detail. On the second pass through the poem most experienced readers would make a mental note to try and figure out what you were doing with the punctuation signal.

 

In the four poems you have posted, I've seen one comma, one exclamation point, one period, and one question mark. The punctuation is so spartan as to make it's mere appearance a cause for the reader to question. I had to look at the comma in, "Feed from the threat, suckle its nipple" two or three times before I figured out it was just a bit of correct grammar usage.

 

In general, I find that when a poet shows an aversion to grammar, it's a sign of youth. Most young poets don't use much grammar. We tend to get wrapped up in the romantic moment of writing a poem and completely disregard punctuation as a necessary part of the poem. This is not to say that every poem needs a lot of punctuation. The poems that function best without punctuation are poems that move really quickly and are relatively uncomplicated. If the reader is just meant to enjoy the moment and move on, then punctuation should definitely take a back seat. If the poem is calculated, precise, thought provoking, complicated, or otherwise difficult then it needs some punctuation.

 

Without knowing your exact mind in this poem I can't advise you very strongly about punctuation use in general but a few suggestions would be:

 

Your clout and the unbearable weight

of heavy wind sucking—worn

(worn appears to be a transition word usable in both this line and the next. The dash separates it somewhat from the existing line and puts it on a separate island while still keeping it in the same line.)

 

old trails and inroads,

(comma adds a slightly longer pause. Highly discretionary in usage here.)

 

or imagined selflessness

clutching the noose of a soft illusion.

(complete thoughts typicaly end with a period.)

 

Feed from the threat, suckle its nipple.

(The line seems to be a complete thought.)

 

nuzzle the mouth of the warm—canon

(Already mentioned the reason for the dash here.)

 

When new roots lift an atrophied gate,

(You are listing traits here, normal gramar separates them with a comma.)

 

seep through the torn wreckage;

(Not sure why the change in tense here. Using seep instead of seeping maintains the tense of the stanza. The semicolon separates the first and last half of the stanza.)

 

the freight train remembers—

(Your key line is coming up, force a pause before it for dramatic emphasis. Otherwise it might get lost in the mist of imagery.)

 

a haunting ration of fear!

(Climax! Bam, you're there! Now stop and think about what I've told you before you wrap up.)

 

Derailed at the fleeting moment of truth,

(trait list.)

 

freed from the threat that cleanses the breech,

(trait list.)

 

It releases the shores of deep dreams.

(Most poems end in a period. It's a tradition older than dirt. Doesn't mean they all have to but most should unless you, as the poet, have a compelling reason for it not to. Using a ... can symbolize that things are unfinished or that the readers needs to figure out the rest for themselves. Walt Whitman, in "Songs of Myself" left the period off the end of the poem his entire life. This was to symbolize that the poem wasn't over, the journey wasn't complete. On his final (I think 13th edition of the poem, his death-bed addition) he finally put the period in. Some say it was because he became obsessed with the traditonal mechanics of poetry. I rather think it was because he knew he was dying and the journey was over. At any rate, have a reason for doing something non-standard at the end of the poem. It is a great chance to send a final message to your reader.)

 

My suggestions are by no means difinitive. I'm sure every poet has his own ideas about punctuation, and most are valid. This is poetry after all. I mostly want to get you thinking about using this powerful tool in your poetry. Why not, you use so many others.

[Preprise]

hmmm interesting. I have actually moved away from punctuation. A few of my completely subjective reasons are...

 

#1: It's ugly as sin. It just ... looks bad. To me the cleanliness of negative space is part of the reading experience. But that's the designer in me talking.

 

#2: I found I was unable to use them to create the rythms I'm so fond of (Dr. Seuss is a big influence, no really). But that you mention that it can actually be used to create forced beats and emphasize certain things is quite intriguing to me. I'll keep my eyes peeled and see what tricks I can pick up from others.

 

Thanks for the input. I agree that a more precise title would be better. I'll get to thinking on that.

 

Thanks for the "seeping" comment. So obvious.

 

As for the grammar thing in general, meh, I don't know. Sometimes I care other times I don't. If I try to abide closely by it I get lost in it and end up not having a poem but an equation. Not sure how to consolidate the interests.

 

uhm

 

...

[Preprise]

One more thing. If it seems I'm not applying advice very quickly it's just that I'm ultra busy with wrapping up school.

[reverie]

I.e. "nuzzle the mouth of the warm canon". This line I quite liked a lot. The intentional juxtaposition of canon for cannon provides a nice twist; however, I think most readers will ignore this as an intentional switch because you, as the poet, do not bring their attention to it. Changing the line to, "nuzzle the mouth of the warm—canon" would force your reader to stop just before and after canon. The reader has to pause before because of the dash and then after because of the line break. In essence you would force your reader to examine that word in detail. On the second pass through the poem most experienced readers would make a mental note to try and figure out what you were doing with the punctuation signal.

I disagree. Dashes separated clauses or are the expansions of an idea. You are suggesting that Preprise use a dash to split an adjective from the noun it modifies. True, grammar is more flexible in poetry, but I think this borders on incorrect usage. Would you use a common, colon, or semi-colon to separate a modifier from it's noun or verb? Not really. You could use a common to separate two modifiers like in the "gray, placid sea," but you could do just as well without it.

 

Anyway rules can always be bent but I don't think emphasizing a pun qualifies this. It's too jarring of a departure of the norm, when a line break would serve just as well to break up the noun / modifier pair. Why? because you don't break up a pair this way unless you want to add more weight to one. Same way you would with an inversion. Italics could serve just as well, but italics can confuse just as much as they are meant to stand out, so you have to be careful with them. I tend to over use them myself. Hell you could even play with capitalization if you like.

 

Now I'm not saying you can't invent your own rules or just play with grammar in general, but if you choose to do that then you have to be consistent so as to establish your system as the new norm in your poem or as a parody of the norm. It works just like magical realism in fiction. If you create a new world with it's own rule of nature and magic then you owe it to your reader to establish what is normal in your fantasy world.

 

This is assuming you want to be inclusive as a writer. If you want to be inaccessible then you still own your reader something. Even T.S. Elliot gave us foot notes, e.e. cummings created sort of visual puzzles, which I only rarely get, and symbolism fiends draw from well established legends and myths. Otherwise you're just writing a journal entry for an audience of one.

Edited November 7, 2007 by reverie

[Mardrax]

One more thing. If it seems I'm not applying advice very quickly it's just that I'm ultra busy with wrapping up school.

By all means, take your time. Some people leave writing lying for months, even years before going for that next edit.

You're not working on a deadline here

[Da_Yog]

I disagree. Dashes separated clauses or are the expansions of an idea. You are suggesting that Preprise use a dash to split an adjective from the noun it modifies. True, grammar is more flexible in poetry, but I think this borders on incorrect usage. Would you use a common, colon, or semi-colon to separate a modifier from it's noun or verb? Not really. You could use a common to separate two modifiers like in the "gray, placid sea," but you could do just as well without it.

Nice to see you take your poetry so seriously. Let me see if I can put this a different way. What I'm really suggesting is that Prepise break grammatical cannon at the precise point in his poem where he compares canon to sucking on the barrel of a cannon. Too glib? I don't know. Inappropriate? Maybe. Do I like it? yep. I'm also suggesting he do it to grab the readers attention at a critical point in the poem. Do I like dashes for emphatic pauses in poems? Yep. Have I read an excessive amount of Emily Dickenson. Nope, I don't think so.

Edited November 8, 2007 by Da_Yog

[reverie]

I haven't read that much of Emily D. either except what school makes you read, but from what I've seen of her regarding dashes, she seemed to pair them with common and semi-colons in order to break up clauses and such. I've seen one or two other (older type) poets do it too, and I once tried doing that in a poem and was slammed for over punctuating. Well remember grammar and punctuation didn't get streamlined in English (at least in America) until the last century or so I think.

 

Anyway, I have no problem with what your trying to suggest, just with the method of using a dash, that's why I suggested alternatives and then I kind went off on a tangent with that fiction comparison. Sorry, I tend to do that. Left-hander's disease. Hmm, he might be able to get away with a hypen between "warm" and "canon." Ya know read it like a compound word, but that's a pretty big stretch. No that wouldn't do either, since you want a pause.

 

Wait a minute? Do you want an actual pause in the reading or do you just want the words to stand out in the reader's mind. Because if you just want a pause then heck man, you can just use an ellipses. Unorthodox, yes. Chat room lingo, you betcha. But it would get the same effect, and though it is still technically wrong, the ellipses is more corrupted than the dash.

 

Personally, I'd just use a line break if I felt it needed to be highlighted any further, which I'm not so sure it does.

 

rev...

Edited November 8, 2007 by reverie

[Da_Yog]

To Rev:

 

LoL!

[reverie]

Interestingly enough, i've just discovered that Wallace Stevens (American Southern type) sometimes will use an ellipse to indicate a pause in a poem. not many dashes or colons though. he's more a common / semi-colon kind of guy.

 

rev...