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[Ayshela]

just a quick explanation on one point which comes up again and again - and NOT guild related, for a wonder...

 

 

The reason there are "several places to post the same thing" is actually quite simple.

 

The public rooms are available to anyone who trips by - of necessity and by design. They are available to new members to post in, available to unregistered lurkers to read (for how else would they know if they even want to register, much less apply?), and available to any search engine and archive mechanism out there.

 

Not everyone wants every creative work they post, or every discussion which touches on personally tender topics to be so visible. Rather than restrict their ability to contribute to the boards, or restrict their ability to post as they felt the need to, a "safer" place to post such material was created. There is one for conversational topics which should not be accessible to anyone who trips across the site, and one for creative writing projects of any sort which also should not be randomly tripped across.

 

Also, there is the Writer's Workshop, where those who have an idea or a partially complete project can post it for comment and critique of a very specific and direct nature, post revisions, and repeat the process until they are happy with the completed project - which will then be posted in the appropriate public room. While this process *could* be done in the public rooms, as feedback and critique does happen there, it's of a totally different nature. What happens in the public rooms is more like a passing comment by a friend reading over your shoulder. What happens in the Workshop is more like having your prof red-pencil your paper and send it back for revision.

 

To suit the needs of the membership, we need all of these - and they all exist by request of the membership.

 

Does it make it confusing to find something? sometimes. If it's not something a search would be useful for, and you're just trying to remember where "reading material" type posts are, the *format* is really not that difficult if we break it down a bit...

 

+place for conversation (Cabaret)

+place for stories (Assembly)

+place for poetry (Banquet)

+place for roleplay stories (Conservatory)

+place for archives (Library)

+place for applications (Recruiters)

 

+place for multilingual stories (Manor of tongues)

 

(Walls of the Pen with various stuff)

 

+place for member-viewable conversation ( Courtyard)

+++place for member-viewable stories/poetry/songs/essays (Oak tree subforum)

 

 

The breakdown is pretty easy, once you understand why they're there. Is it publicly viewable? Is is membership viewable? Is it completed? Is it still being worked on?

 

Since each of these was put in by request, and the membership-viewable distinction was made on a basis of personal safety, I don't think either of those are things we can simply blend into the main public spaces. Could they be placed somewhere else, or handled differently? Maybe, I don't know. But I don't think those are spaces we can simply discard, even though they add an element of confusion in finding things.

[Quincunx]

FYI all: New accounts are currently set to "validating", which means someone has to come by and turn posting access ON. That's why you're not seeing spam posted right now, but it also means there's a delay between registration and posting. The more web-savvy folk are looking at the spam info and picking domains to block (much as that diminshes the possible legitimate posters lurking behind them :/ ), so hopefully we can turn validation off soon.

 

Morgane: Oh my. That "plus/minus thingy" is quite useful! I hadn't known about that when I proposed the reorganization, and they would toggle off about half the Pen at a time, in that proposal. I will try to break things up a bit more so that the toggles are useful. (Also a belated thanks to Patrick for pointing out the 'return to top' button. So many nifty features I didn't even know we had.) Can I poke you and any other readers for forums that you'd like to be able to "turn off"?

 

Sweetcherrie: Sometimes you've got to post before asking permission.

 

And Katzaniel: There is no pool of power to grab hold of, here. The only tools the elders have got and some other people don't is a) one forum ability to tinker with the board software. does make it easier to take action since we don't have to run down someone else to implement things, but posting (and the self-confidence to keep posting after a dissenting opinion) carry what power there is here.

 

(Tzimfemme shines a spotlight on Mardrax.)

 

Look at the weight his posts carried, and technically he's not even here yet.

 

(aside) Just between you and me, I seem to have latched onto you.

 

(at large) DIBS!

 

(Tzimfemme goes back to the chalkboard.)

 

Oh yes. c) enjoyment of discussion. It's one of our few non-fiction and/or persuasive writing outlets.

 

(Tzimfemme ducks Appy's response.)

 

What? You didn't call dibs first.

 

(Tzimfemme canters around the chalkboard, firing off erasers when possible, and dodging incoming bits of broken chalk.)

 

Mynx: Forgive me, I thought you knew this intuitively, but a polite silence sometimes takes tremendous amounts of energy to maintain!

 

(The wish list unfurls around the chalkboard like a streamer, or the tail of the Tzimcomet, as she ticks off points with a bit of ammo.)

 

Right, that's a few of those covered. . .Someone else will have to handle the wikipedia, I don't touch that, although you may quote me at your pleasure. . .Move the Piazza to where? A subforum of Conservatory? . . .IRC hasn't been too bad in Euro evenings for off-the-cuff roleplay. . .Off-the-cuff roleplay is sorely missed in all places--and speaking of missed, watch where you're hurling that chalk!--

 

(Offstage, an "Oi! Watch it yourself!")

 

--Wyvern and Zool provided examples in this thread of how you can intertwine discussion and roleplay. Visual art! D'you mean uploading it to the Pen website itself (and for that, I'd have to defer to one of the web-savvy), or just a sign saying Please Place Visual Art Links Here? Wear a shirt. . .Shirt. . .Blood and bones, what happened to our shirt? I begin to think that personal and business loyalties shouldn't have gotten intertwined there. . .

 

"Whaaaaaaaaahahahahahhahooooooooooooooie!"

 

What the--!

 

(Tzimfemme leaps behind the chalkboard as Joat flashes past, in free-fall off of the shoulder of the earth, yelling with joy.)

 

News page! Another web-savvy thing and one I've oddly grown to miss. I still wish it weren't a blanket laid over the face of the forums, but there's no denying it'd wrap up several other requests as well. . .and since Q has been tinkered with by multiple gnomes, I wouldn't eat anything that came out of it.

[Mardrax]

*tosses another chalk in the nekkid writer's direction from the last row of seats in the classroom*

 

I'll have to ask you to refrain from latching on to me Miss. That might prove... uncomfortable.

And what might you mean by stating I'm not here yet?

Need I toss more chalks for you to acknowledge my presence?

But, how can you thank me if I'm not here? Let alone shine spotlights on me? Argh... my poor head.

 

Besides, I seem to have picked up that the company who would be making the shirts is still trying to get their shop actually up and running.

 

*continues making multicoloured spitballs with miscelaneous items pulled from his pockets*

[Yui-chan]

[*]resurrect the news page

Ask, and the collective 'ye' shall receive! Welcome back, Portal.

 

.... does this mean we need to resurrect the Mighty Pen News posts, too? Vlad? Are you even still ... y'know... around??

 

Ever at Your Service,

~Yui-chan

[Sweetcherrie]

Thanks Yui, looks great

[reverie]

Just like to add, that I like workshop as not being viewable/searchable to the web at large. It's one of the main reasons I still use it.

 

rev...

[Mardrax]

*tentatively raises a hand, hiding the straw he's been using for launching projectiles behind his back with the other*

 

Miss? Might I toss in a little insight/side comment on what you said there?

 

I actually have offered this in IRC as well, though that was pretty much behind closed doors I guess, so I'll offer it again up here.

Regarding your comment about there not being a pool of power to grab, or any noteworthy tools to go along with that other than web-tinkering ones. I agree and disagree. As I know some of the people concerned (the elders in particular, but in that respect, you are very much an elder too Tzim) to maintain that same line of thought, I will state my observation here then, in hopes of changing that mindset of powerlessness. So hear me on for a while, if you will.

 

Indeed, no one will have power over any other here, but then again, everyone will, in some way.

The power to make people feel, which has been proven beyond doubt countless times already.

The power to make people agree with what we're saying, the power to sway things our way.

Words alone give more power than any "tool" can, as most of us here will readily acknowledge normally.

Don't forget about that now.

 

This does not only hold true for writing, it holds true for everything beside what this forum was created for as well. In our communications amongst eachother, like the way we are communicating now, here in this thread, like the way we communicate through IRC, through PMs. Most people here will also acknowledge this as tempers have risen high enough several times over, and continue to do so, I myself not having been part or witness of one of these occasions in the time before I came out of lurking, but I have been witness to such an occasion later as well. These situations are never pleasant, but they do demonstrate the power of these words quite aptly.

 

Ofcourse, none of these are quite my observations, 'cause I have said a few times before, most of us are aware of this.

However now I'll look into this a bit further, again to try to discover what's the reason behind.

Why do words touch us so? Their meaning? The stretch of them? In part.

The main reasons I see are because the words touch either upon subjects we care about, because the words are spoken by people we care about or just respect, or because the words are spoken in a way we pick up on them.

The first and last are reason why tempers tend to flare, the middle is what usually calms those tempers back down. All of them however, can be turned to good with a little effort.

The first is something that can't be influenced, when something needs to be spoken about, there's nothing to do about that. The latter two however can be influenced. Who speaks, and the way he speaks are things that greatly influence the way whatever is spoken come across. The latter of which is also already realised by alot of people when criticising works of others, for example. The "who" part however, seems to be widely disregarded, which I can imagine... you just can't change who you are, so why bother with that part? There again though, it's not something that needs to be turned negatively. As all well know, people can be very biased about what someone says, just on the bases of considering wether or not they like that person.

If they don't like that person, they'll be very quick to negatively interpret anything he says, on the other hand, if they do like him, they'll be much more likely to interpret whatever he says positively.

 

And that's where my observation comes in.

The way I see it, this community consists of a whole lot of "vets". People who have been in this community for very long, sometimes with differing backgrounds as little groups within the community, but even those go back a very long way. It's these "vets" who form the pennite core. And through that, it's these "vets" that influence the way the rest of the community handles the most. If only just because of the deep bonds these people have together, the ammount to which they have grown attached and accustomed to one another, and the major part of the community these people take. Sure, there are others, an alot more numerous group, but they will never influence either the reactions of their peers, the "vets" or this community as a whole the way the longtime members do.

Most prominent among these longtime members are the elders. They have the "highest ranked places", not because they are powerful as such, but because they are perhaps the most important part here. Not because of the various administrative duties they fulfill, but because of their relationships.

With these relationships comes the power to influence the others, in good ways.

That was my meaning in my previous post when saying that if any leading entity should clear up problems of non-activity, strife between membership etc. , it should be the elders. They are a closeknit group of friends, who unlike any other in this community, know the community as a whole. They are the ones who know where to poke people if they start to feel discomforted by something, or they know who to ask to do it for them.

 

Please, don't say you don't have any power, but learn to control that power instead. Learn how you can exert it to its greatest influence, as you no doubt knew once before, with the people you've lived with for a long time. Having a larger base of people together though, means having to get to know them too, to achieve that effect.

 

 

That concludes my little rant about that. As I've said before to one, I will now say to all: do with it as you will.

 

....

 

And Miss?.... Thank you.

 

*sits back down with a sigh and the unnerving feeling of having said too much in too short a time*

[Wyvern]

Moving back to the central subject of the thread, I've switched around a few of the forums in coordination with the options proposed in this thread. If people don't like the changes, switching them back to their original locations is an easy process. Here are the changes that were made:

 

- The Greenroom is now a subforum of the Conservatory. It is available for Honored Guests to read, but you can only post in it if you're an Initiate. Incentive to join. *wink wink*

 

- The Critic's Corner is now a subforum of the Assembly Room. Like the Greenroom, Honored Guests can currently read it, but only Initiates can post in it. I'm not as certain about this switch as the Critic's Corner does contain threads based on poetry in it. Another Critic's Corner could be made for the Banquet Hall, as Quincunx suggested, if there ends up being a demand for it.

 

- The Courtyard has been moved from the Passageway to the Minstrel Hall, and the permissions settings have been changed accordingly. From what I gathered from this thread, people wish for it to be a place where they can archive their works safely amongst people who they've known for a long while. Since the process of accepting Initiates is so swift (yaaay me ;p), I thought the forum might be better suited for the Page and up area of the Pen.

 

Anyway, let me know what you think of these changes. I was generally going by the options posted in this thread, and just chose my favorites out of them... things can quickly be changed back to the way they were, or can continue to be changed in other ways if you prefer. Thanks to Sweetcherrie, Quincunx, and Yui for getting the ball rolling on the forum rearrangement, and thanks to Wrenwind for the second opinions on IRC while these changes were being made. Peace y'all.

[Xaious, Master of Time]

I've noticed that when I'm on the main page and I click the link for the forums, it brings me back to the main page...

This is quite a problem...

[Ayshela]

yoiks! that makes a rather endless loop, doesn't it?

try clicking on the link above - "The Pen is Mightier than the Sword" - it'll take you to the main index from ANY page, portal included. Which you probably already realized, since you got here to post this.

[Yui-chan]

I've noticed that when I'm on the main page and I click the link for the forums, it brings me back to the main page...

This is quite a problem...

 

A couple of people pointed the error out to me. Thanks to all of you. It should now be fixed.

 

Thus, the top banner takes you to the portal, the Forums link on the Portal should now properly be taking you to the Index. Please let me know if it's still giving anyone problems.

 

I now return you to your regularly scheduled discussion.

~Yui

[The Portrait of Zool]

Thanks Yui!

[The Big Pointy One]

In regards to the Critics' Corner... is there not a way to have it as a subforum for both forums as opposed to creating a new one? In other words, when the subforum is set up, can it be set up as a link to the current Critics' Corner? I suppose it wouldn't be that bad to have two Critics' Corners, although the one barely seems to find much use as is.

 

[Quincunx]

I don't know if there's a way to do that, and it would somewhat kill the point of reducing visual clutter if one forum had two (or more) listings. There will only be two Critics' Corners if the forum is split by genre--the contents of the current one will move to wherever the forum lands.

[Gyrfalcon]

Many thanks for getting the portal up and running, Yui-chan, you rock.