reverie Posted December 16, 2005 Report Posted December 16, 2005 (edited) 'ello all, As I was gearing up for my English Lit. Exam this evening, I ran across an interesting idea in my text's preface. It's one of those HUGE norton anthologies. Anyway, it said sometime like: A particular speech community can pronouce words "half" or "car" however it likes, but it can't unilaterally change the way the words are spelled. Indeed, this is one of the unappreciated advantages of the notoriously irregular English spellings system-it is so plainly unphonetic that there's no temptation to take it as codifying any particular spoken variety. When you want to define a written standard in a linquistic community that embraces no one standard accent, it's useful to have a spelling system that doesn't tip its hand. So in other words, English is cool in that the various english-speaking regions of the words can come up with their own individual dialects or way of pronoucing things, but for the most part we can still understand each other in the media of the written world. Okay yeah, big deal. Why am I bringing it up? Okay so presumably an individual english speaking-community can't unilaterally change the rules of spelling just because of their regions accent. Well what happens when you have a community that doesn't speak to each other at all. A community that communicates almost exclusively via the written word, say like the internet??? And with all the net-speak lingo that's already out there, I wonder if one day we will all end up creating an new internet-based standand of English... What are the over all implications of this? I have no idea. I just thought it sounded neat. rev... Edited December 16, 2005 by reverie
Mira Posted December 16, 2005 Report Posted December 16, 2005 I took a Writing class this semester that focused on Digital Literacy, and in it we discussed how this up and coming generation (Generation-D or Generation -@ or whatever you would like to call it) is already forming their own dialect. I know several people who use words like "pwn" or acronyms like "lol" or "brb" in everyday speach. On a totally unrealated note I have my own profound thought... Why do we park in driveways and drive on parkways?
reverie Posted December 16, 2005 Author Report Posted December 16, 2005 (edited) Hmm, I wonder if the Digital Generation or Generation D (i've never heard this before 'til you mentioned it) will surplant the name Generation Y. I think it be good thing if it did. As I'm part of the crowd born at the tail end of being considered Generation X, and I often looked on at the up and coming Gen Y with curiosity. Well, the label really... Gen X's Identity was firmly set before I even hit my teens, and the middle to upper end of my Gen is coming to grips with growing out of their respective primes. And even being on the peripheral, I can see how we earned our name. We were the gen that basically rose up and said, to our baby-boomer fore-fathers: "What the #!$!$, you can't start a cultural-revolution then opt-out of halfway...How the @#@$ do you go from being a Hippie in the sixties to a stock broker in the 80's. Does no one else see the hypocrasy in that???" And they answered us, "Well, it seemed like a good idea at the time. Sorry 'bout the Enviroment, Drugs, AIDS, and OIL btw; but you kids are smart we're sure you figure it all out...just like we did with communism..." And we were like, "Whoa, that's some heavy stuff, hmm, we need to take an extended break to mull all this stuff over..." So we invented MTV, Maxium, Video games, and the Internet to distract ourselves from the insanity that was reality. So with all that being said, I always thought it odd that the Baby Boomers went ahead and named Generation Y. Like, they haven't even done anything yet to define themselves, which I think is unfair to them. They shouldn't have an arbitrary name forced upon them just because it the letter "Y" convenietly follows "X" in the alphabet. They're better than that... and btw Brittiny Spears, boy-bands, and other assorted pop culture icons that did not start at the grass root level do not count. You think Gen X is going to let the Tiffiany and New kids on the block, define us. No way. !!@#!@ that! So, henceforth I will refer to Generation "Y" as the Digital Generation or Generation D. For where most of the Gen X'ers witnessed the Digital world rise from the ashes of the Analogue world (anyone else remember life before cell phones and CD's or Vinyl records, 45's, Cassetts Tapes, Pagers, and if you're really middle of the road even 8 tracks), Generation D was born into it. So thanks for the insights Mira. And Generation D, welcome to the world. Sorry about the rise of worldwide fundamentalism, terrorism, bird flu, the continued depletion of ozone layer/enviroment, urban sprawl, David Hasselhoff, David Blame, The Mullet, Pop-country music, Crack, Reality T.V., and the return of war...but you're smart kids, we're sure you'll figure it out. Edited December 17, 2005 by reverie
Katzaniel Posted December 16, 2005 Report Posted December 16, 2005 Gaaah! I do *not* want to be defined by litespeak! I see all those idiotic commercials for text-messaging on cell-phones, and I shudder! It's all horrible, so horrible! Also, BTW, I clearly remember the days of DOS and vinyl records. I remember the first of my friends getting a computer, the start of our CD collections, the end of VHS... I remember when my grandma (the most computer-savvy grandma ever, I bet) first got a mouse and then, later, a scanner. I remember the dawn of the internet and cell-phones both. I saw windows start, grow, boom, wither, and decay. So unless you're going to tell me I've been mistaken about being part of gen. Y, please don't tell me that gen. Y was born into the already-risen digital world....
Mira Posted December 16, 2005 Report Posted December 16, 2005 I took a look at your profile and decided that you're borderline Katz. Early 80's was the cut off point between Gen-X and the next generation, and you fell right in there.
reverie Posted December 16, 2005 Author Report Posted December 16, 2005 (edited) Yeah, Katz you on the cusp... 1981 is usually the agreed upon cut off date for Gen X. Where the first wave of Gen X has just reached middle age, the first wave of the Digital Generation is just old enough to have generally just graduated college and a maybe a short graduate school... So for the most part Gen X found their voice thoughtout the 80's and early 90's. Moreover, the last wave of Babyboomer's still dominated the youth culture of the 70's just like last wave of Gen X of dominated the youth of the 90's...(Using music as example: the dominance of Hip Hop and Grudge revolution came out of the fading embers of Gen X, just like Punk, Disco, and Rockabillie came out of the last wave of the Boomers...) Concurrently, the Babyboomers also finally came to power and took over the establishment in the early 90's as while. Like Clinton and Bush the younger are Baby-boomers who came of age in the Vietnam era. While Bush Senior and Reagon fought in WWII so were part of the supposed "greatest generation." If trends repeat themselves, then Gen X (if we step up.)should just be coming to power within a decade or so... Most Boomers right now have already past middle age, so retirement for the majority of them will be becoming a reality sooner than later. Hmm, so Gen D's just getting it's feet wet, and the Generation after Gen D is just being born right now. Though some new age groups have already dubbed the children on the mid 90's to present the indigo children for their supposed vast increase metaphysical and pyshic abilities. I doubt that label will endure though. I'm betting more than likely a new name will crop up based on the millenum or sometime do with the current state of international events. Like if we have a WWIII or sometime in the next ten years or so to right now, Gen D would be fighting most of it (That's whose's in Iraq now. All three waves of Gen X are in charge, and 1st and 2nd wave of Gen D are the green recruits or canon fodder, if you will...) If we have one in 20 years, the Gen after Gen D will be fighting it. Well, that a lot nonsence, but was fun to write. rev... Edited December 17, 2005 by reverie
Quincunx Posted December 16, 2005 Report Posted December 16, 2005 Gaaah! I do *not* want to be defined by litespeak! I see all those idiotic commercials for text-messaging on cell-phones, and I shudder! It's all horrible, so horrible! Also, BTW.... I wanted to preserve that in case you came to your senses and deleted it. (Tzimfemme grins evilly.) To cycle back towards the thread topic, the last time spelling changed, we were celebrating our supposed stupidity with songs like "Yankee Doodle Dandy", which leads me to the worrisome parallel that, 200 years in the future, people will still know why "All your base are belong to us" is funny.
reverie Posted December 16, 2005 Author Report Posted December 16, 2005 Oh yeah, I forgot Webster's rebellion against British spelling... good call Q.
Katzaniel Posted December 16, 2005 Report Posted December 16, 2005 Okay, I see your point, I totally do. But I want to point out that abbreviations, like "BTW", even "BRB" and maybe even "LOL" are a totally different species from "wat ru doin 2nite?" (shudder). Abbreviations came before us; they are only more dominant now because communications with text and writing are more prevalent. I used J/K and BTW long before I used internet. (I will, by the way, be one of those people who clings to old technology - I can already see it in myself. "Cell phones are the devil!" and "I am not replacing my whole DVD collection with whatever comes after" and "It's called a kangaroo, not a bunnyhug or a - yuck - 'hoodie'." Change can be good, but I don't like change for the pure sake of change. Bleh.)
reverie Posted December 17, 2005 Author Report Posted December 17, 2005 (edited) Interestingly enough, as I doing a last minute cram session with some of my classmates, today, one of the freshmen girls (college type), jumped up enthusiastically, and yelled out, "BRB!" ...then took off down the hall. She didn't say "be-right-back" or "bathroom break," she said: "B" "R" "B." Aye, 'tis a brave new world indeed. rev... Edited December 17, 2005 by reverie
Tyrion Posted December 17, 2005 Report Posted December 17, 2005 I've been reading about Generation X and Y... Technically I'm a Y-er, but I don't feel like I can associate with what I've read about them. I didn't grow up with computers... it seems they consider the important part to be the "formative years" which they consider to be the teenage years for some reason. Yes, I did get my Nintendo when I was 5. And I did have a computer at the time, but only because my dad is a programmer. I didn't use the internet before I was 13. So when I think back on "when I was young," it doesn't involve computers. We need a Generation for people like me who grew up in the early nineties and watched technology grow up with us. Because I can't say I watched it all happen, but it definitely wasn't there when I got here. And I totally agree with Katz on the technology thing. I'm never getting rid of my Nintendo! I'll still buy game cartridges I don't have when I see them in garage sales! As long as I live I won't let my mom throw away her records and record player to make room. And you guys call it a kangaroo in English too? I thought that was a French thing.
reverie Posted December 17, 2005 Author Report Posted December 17, 2005 (edited) well pretty much, you're just like me, you're in the middle, so you got some aspects of both generation... Consider yourself a hybrid, and like any good hybrid you have to learn to deal with not ever being fully able to totally fit in to either group that birthed you... but you can take some comfort in your extra strong immune system, and if you lucky you might get a mixed and unexpected range abilities that one ever could have anticipated. So take pride in your hybrid status. I do. Say it, scream it: I am TIGER WOODS!!! Well, not exactly, but you get the picture. Plus, you guys have a destinct advantage over me, I'm on the tail end of my generation, so I'll always be playing catch up. While you guys are at the beginning of yours, so you get to blaze the trail. So go out and be the best little prioneer you can be... Heh, but honestly, all this talk of labels, is really just sometime that historains and lay ppl use to compartmentalize our thoughts. We don't need them, and no one ever exactly fits into any prescribed mold. So I wouldn't lament, being a part of Gen Y, but not feeling apart of it. It's just a contrived notion some people thought up for the sake of convenience. If you want a label, make your own, or if really need someone to give you one. Then Bam! I dub thee Nintendo Kids. Or children of the 80's. Or Kids that grew up in warm Green Glow of the Apple 2. Abort, Retry, Ignore... I myself was one of these, but I was also an Altaria Kid, I recall ppl talked a lot about Famicons too, but that's just the Japanese name/version for Nintendo, so am not sure what all the fuss was about... Hmm, when i look back at my life in terms of video games systems, it really makes pause, and wonder about validity of our collective first-world cultures and the future progress of humanity in general, ya know. Jeeze, no wonder everyone hates us... I suppose the Romans had their own forms of meaningless entertaiment... Dang, we really are doomed aren't we... rev_out. Edited December 17, 2005 by reverie
Tyrion Posted December 17, 2005 Report Posted December 17, 2005 I can live with being a hybrid... but it seems to me like there is a whole 10-year window for hybrids. So why not call the hybrids a generation of their own? Now all we need is a cool name... and maybe a cool generation motto.
Appy Posted December 17, 2005 Report Posted December 17, 2005 *has to agree with Tyrion, but doesn't have a cool name for us hybrids either*
Quincunx Posted December 17, 2005 Report Posted December 17, 2005 I do disagree, Katzaniel. My friends and I wrote many letters from 1994 through 1997, which would be the period when many of us started to use the Internet, and those abbreviations and acronyms were not used. We had our own cryptic doodle-based shorthand, but nothing that someone outside our circle would have used, and not imitated from an outside source. How do you read abbreviations? How do you hear them in your head? I either fill in the phrase, if it's an acronym, or think "gibberish" if it's an abbreviation; if I have to hear the acronym, it spells itself out. Starlight makes a sound out of the letters already present, which leads to occasional misunderstandings when we're playing Everquest and trying to speak to one another. The EQ community has even begun self-correcting on this one by making acronyms out of one letter for (example) a buff type and one number for the level of buff--much harder to misinterpret. Perhaps this system was taken from another game, but it has no relation to the names and acronyms already present in the game.
reverie Posted December 17, 2005 Author Report Posted December 17, 2005 (edited) I agree with Q. I never heard or saw anyone ever use the abbreviations "BTW, BRB, LOL, J/K, IMHO, ROTFLMAO, TTYL, GTG, ROX, SUX, Thanx, CYA, HIYA, TY, @" before I started using the internet. I recall frequently having to ask ppl what they meant, since chat rooms didn't provide the best context clues or have a marked absence of body language. Oh "ppl" and "prolly" are some other one's I never saw before. Same goes for "w/" for with, plus we can't forget the increased use of "..." elispses I blame ICQ. Now, it's true the words/phrases "be right back, by the way, just kidding, and in my opinion(not many ppl say "humble" in informal speech), talk to you later, Got to go, rocks, sucks, see-you or see-you-later, at, and thank you," existed long before the internet. But like I said, I never say anyone EVER abbreviate them outside of the internet. "Hiya" is interesting I think. It did exist before the internet, but not really as it's own entity. It was just kind of an exaggerated way of saying "Hi" when you might have got too excited. Or even a syllabic stumbled when trying to say "hi, how are you doing" too fast. If you rushed the words your ear would translate it into, "Hiya, how ya doing" or "how ya'll doing" if your from the south. It's got kind of a lyric quality to it. "Hi ya" trying to parallel the "how ya." And of course there were the cheezy cowboy movies attempting poor imatations of native american speech, but that "Hiya" as a seperate meaning, and also so does the Karate variat. Really, the only common abbreviations/acronyms, I recall existing before the net was "b/c" for "because," "K or ok" for "okay," and "&" for "and." Edited December 17, 2005 by reverie
Tyrion Posted December 17, 2005 Report Posted December 17, 2005 Actually I'm pretty sure "prolly" came into existence because that's how 'probably' sounds when you don't articulate. I'm a pretty lazy speaker a lot of the time and I tend to say words really fast, skipping a syllable or two, and when I say "probably" it sounds a lot like "prolly."
reverie Posted December 17, 2005 Author Report Posted December 17, 2005 that's a good observation, Try. you're prolly right. Sorry just couldn't resist. Well, i'm off to go fight traffic. For some crazy reason, I fill compelled to criss-cross a couple of states. Happy Festivus, everyone. rev...
Katzaniel Posted December 17, 2005 Report Posted December 17, 2005 Now this is purely just my own experience/opinions, but... BTW, J/K, and w/, w/o, and thanx were all pre-internet. I got the w/ and w/o habit from my mom, and can point out various VHS cassettes with the abbreviation in our house. BRB, LOL, IMHO, ROTFLMAO, TTYL, GTG, ROX, SUX, CYA, HIYA, TY, and @ were likely not. You'll notice that one wouldn't use things like "gtg" in a letter... it was, I think, born of the internet and chatting age. Others are debatable, but I know I saw the ones I mentioned. The only one I can think of that I use that is post-internet is "brb" because if someone calls you and you are in a rush, you don't have time to type "be right back". But I do think "be right back" when I type it. I generally like to type out most of my words, but things that I use quite commonly, I will abbreviate. (Also, if I'm taking a class that requires lots of notes and repetive words, it will turn into something like "s/w proc are usu used when the prog'rs are doing more than 1 similar proj" quite quickly. ) For some reason, I think "loll" when I see "lol", not "laugh out loud" or "lots of laughs" but that might be because I know so many people who pronounce it in everyday speech. The others I insert the phrase as I read. Anyway, though I am guilty of going partway to the dark side, I doubt that even if you went through old chat logs you would find me using "lol" anywhere; maybe once for every fifty times I instead say *laughs*, heh, hehe, *giggles*, et cetera. So I do have some cause to shudder when I see my entire generation being characterized with, or worse, advertised to via, all this stuff. Note, with respect to your comments on "Hiya" - perhaps what the internet did for many of these terms was not so much create them as spread them worldwide very quickly? Appendum: Though, as someone who grew up at the same time the internet did, some of this (like maybe BTW) could be polluted - I heard it before I ever used the internet, but the internet was still the source of it. However, I was pretty quick to join the internet when it really started growing, and it's not like any of my friends were scientists hacking away at the old BB's.
Aardvark Posted December 18, 2005 Report Posted December 18, 2005 Ultimately, everything you do, say, think or create is achieving little more than passing time and staving off boredom, if only for a little while. It may also be having a similar effect for other people as well, but the effect is brief. The natural state of humans is boredom. We're a boring lot. So it is thankful that in the grand scheme of things, we'll have little impact on the universe at large, which is mostly going on without a care in the world for us and will leave not even a marker to inform any other life of our existance when we do vanish
Tyrion Posted December 18, 2005 Report Posted December 18, 2005 We don't know... maybe the fate of the universe rests on how many times "lol" (that I have never ever used) is written/said in a day. Personnally I like to write on IRC the way I would speak, so heh and hehe for small laughs and hah and haha for loud laughs, since you have to open your mouth more for the "ah" sound than for they "ey" sound.
Gwaihir Posted December 18, 2005 Report Posted December 18, 2005 While I will say 'lol' but utterly refuse to leave out even semi-colons where they belong. Though I don't use ending-periods I always use the rest of grammar even on IRC. As long as we all still put brain into our words we're not corrupting the language too much I'd say. A bit of change is natural. A lot of change is bad. By the way, Tyrion, studies show that about no one uses as complicated vocabulary when writing as speaking unless they edit and intentionally put it in.
Tyrion Posted December 18, 2005 Report Posted December 18, 2005 Really? I don't tend to use 'complicated' vocabulary at all unless it's necessary for a joke or I'm writing a paper. When I speak I don't go for complicated vocabulary, so I don't either when I write on IRC. And about Punctuation... yeah, I skip a lot of commas... that makes my sentences complicated to get sometimes.
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