wanderingcamel Posted September 28, 2005 Report Posted September 28, 2005 hi everyone im new but i have questions and i sure other people do as well. some things i would like to know is who makes the gas prices what they are? why do we pay instead of rising together as a country and trying to stop this outrage? why do we help other countries, when we have homless, dieing, hungry people here in our own cuntry? if u would like to discuss this or just have your own opinions on these matters, or your own questions post it here. have a great day.
Katzaniel Posted September 28, 2005 Report Posted September 28, 2005 Um... hi. who makes the gas prices what they are? Supply and demand. If you're willing to pay it, they'll charge it. why do we pay instead of rising together as a country and trying to stop this outrage? Some people don't pay. They walk, ride a bike, take the bus... it's good for the environment and, bit by bit, it probably is affecting the cost. But, try getting the whole country together against it - especially including people who have to get to places that are far away on a regular basis, and don't want to waste their lives in travelling - and you'll have some trouble. why do we help other countries, when we have homless, dieing, hungry people here in our own cuntry? Why not? We help both. My question is, why are you posting this here? This is a writing site.
Peredhil Posted September 28, 2005 Report Posted September 28, 2005 Katz has my question perfectly. Why is this Trolling post here? They didn't ask for help in correcting the numerous spelling and grammar errors... -Confused Peredhil
Sweetcherrie Posted September 28, 2005 Report Posted September 28, 2005 Yup and seeing that this is a writing site, I'm more than willing to help you get some of those nasty spelling mistakes out hi everyone im new but i have questions and i sure other people do as well. some things i would like to know is who makes the gas prices what they are? why do we pay instead of rising together as a country and trying to stop this outrage? why do we help other countries, when we have homless, dieing, hungry people here in our own cuntry? if u would like to discuss this or just have your own opinions on these matters, or your own questions post it here. have a great day. Rewritten it could be something like: (my comments are in red) Hi everyone, I'm new here, and I would love to meet some likeminded people (the smiley here shows your good intentions, and to clarify your goals can be pretty important) Today's world makes me want to ask questions, and I'm fairly certain that some other people will have similar questions to mine. (elaborating here again clarifies your goals, and it makes us understand the main character a bit better) How does the price of gas, become the price of gas? And why do we tolerate them raising the prices, instead of forming a massive army and hack into them? (here you could bring in your imagination, and describe in more detail how this army would battle with the people that set the prices for gas) Why do we help other countries, instead of helping the people in need in our own country? (I've taken out the drama. I mean a bit of description is fine, but you also want your questions to be clear and understood) I would like to ask if there are others that are interested in discussing these subjects or others, and would like to request those people to post their replies here. (rewording can make a great difference. The english language has a pretty large vocabulary, and choosing you words with care is important when you're a writer) Lastly, I would like to thank you for your attention, and I wish you an excellent day. (again the smiley to soften your words, and to let people know that you come with good intentions) Leaving blanks makes it so much easier to read, so does the use of capitals and proper punctuation. Finally I would like to say that spelling and grammar is pretty important if you plan on writing. A mistake is not the end of the world, but it does make it a lot nicer for the reader if you properly spell your words. I'm not a native english speaker, and there are possibly a lot of people around here that would be able to help you further (some really are magicians with words ), but I hope this has been of some help. Welcome at the Pen, and I'd love to see some of your real work
Sweetcherrie Posted September 28, 2005 Report Posted September 28, 2005 ....and as she walks out some people see a grin on her face....
DoctorEvil Posted October 3, 2005 Report Posted October 3, 2005 (edited) Tsk, tsk, tsk........Is this how Pennites treat guests? With sarcastic semi-rudeness and grammar correction? This may have been a long time lurker finally coming out and trying to express themselves and contribute to the community, but instead is met with a message that says "Go away!". Did the poster pick the approriate method or message in their attempt to contribute? No, the Doctor agrees on that point. Could it have been addressed differently? Hmm.....makes the old Doctor wonder. The last time the Doctor checked the message on this forum said "Here one can have a drink and idly chitchat with a friend. (Where do I put this?) " Guess not! This is a writing site? Hmmmm.....really.....here the Doctor thought this place was more about providing a safe place were people can express themselves, often through writing or poetry. The Doctor guess that changed when people started being labeled as "Weenies" if they didn't conform to the "requirements". Was that the point in time when the Pen became exclusive instead on inclusive? The Doctor guesses if you're not actively trying to get yourself published then you have no place here. Is that what the Pen is now? If this post comes across as angry, the Doctor apoligizes. The Doctor waited several days before replying to gather the Doctor's meager thoughts. The idea of "What is the purpose of the Pen" is one that the Doctor has discussed with a couple of members at various times over the last year. The question of "Why is DoctorEvil even a member of the Pen" is one the Doctor has asked the Doctor too. The Doctor certainly isn't a "writer".....although Zool will disagree with this statement as he knows the Doctor's dark secret The Doctor hardly contributes, and the Doctor's membership is largely based on old humorous Archmage postings. So why is the Doctor questioning these things? Well, the Doctor has often heard Pennites say "It's all about the writing".....but is it ONLY about the writing? It seems to the Doctor that self-expression can take different forms. Is giving your a opinion of a movie a form of self express or of writing? The Doctor says yes. Trying to give a good movie review that is consise and states your opinion effectively is a difficult writing task (one which the Doctor still needs practice on). Is it a writing exercise that should be looked down on in favor of fiction or poetry? This argument could carry-over to other forms of self-expression...such as political discussions. So now the Doctor really wonders.....is it just about writing? Does self-express in any format matter? Edited October 3, 2005 by DoctorEvil
Peredhil Posted October 3, 2005 Report Posted October 3, 2005 Peredhil hangs his head in shame. As usual Doc', you cut to the heart of the matter instead of focusing on the symptom. This ouch, for me, deserves a thank you to you.
Katzaniel Posted October 3, 2005 Report Posted October 3, 2005 It just seemed to me that this person did not realize what this site is about. I gave my opinion regarding their questions, but indicated that if these are their concerns, they should be looking to a different sort of forum. No, I don't expect that everyone writes to be published. But don't we expect that you at least like to write? Yes, the Cabaret room is for off-topic discussions. But, in my opinion at least, one shouldn't come into a writing community and start out in this manner. I guess I'm saying (or making a bad attempt at saying) that I agree with the point that you agreed on... and agree that I should have gone about pointing that out in a different manner. Sorry, wanderingcamel.
Tanuchan Posted October 3, 2005 Report Posted October 3, 2005 (edited) I have seen other people writing like that in the past, and no one reacting to it - at least not in public (though I have to agree that they weren't long posts). In the past, I've also seen better ways of saying what the purpose of this forum is - whether it was in answer to trolling or not. The point isn't whether this is a writing forum - it's the way we answer to someone who posted in a place that's supposed to be for off-topic conversation. Someone who could have been a previous lurker, for all we know. Sadly, I have to agree with the Doctor's point. Edited October 3, 2005 by Tanuchan
Sweetcherrie Posted October 3, 2005 Report Posted October 3, 2005 Sure, I won't reply again to these sort of posts. Wanderingcamel: if you're still around...the welcome was genuine.
Gwaihir Posted October 3, 2005 Report Posted October 3, 2005 And, with all due respect to the original poster (and oodles of respect for the Doctor) I will have to disagree with the doctor. Perhaps this poster was truly trying to express themselves in the way normal to the pen and if so I deeply welcome them, but that doesn't mean we can't tease them in my opinion. I doubt that this is a long time lurker, because we regularly discourage political discussion here. Also, we have had similar posts of this nature here before and it is also a very valid possiblilty that the original poster is a troll. Doctor, you note that you don't come here to write usually. I highly respect that, but I bet you do come to read (as you read this post I note.) If the original poster feels like writing a political piece or commenting on one of the many that have been written here I will try to read whatever he writes. However, I also enjoy readign whatever Sweetcherrie writes and I also come to the pen partiallybecause I enjoy all the humour here. I hope that Sweetcherrie and others like her continue to write posts llike this whenever and if the pen becomes a place where we can not write clever pieces gently teasing trolls I will be truely depressed. (very minor edit for logic)
Sweetcherrie Posted October 3, 2005 Report Posted October 3, 2005 Hmm....I was going to leave it with my previous post, but reading Gwai's reply, I simply have to add my voice. Of course this is not only a writing forum (funny enough I've had some major discussions on exactly this topic lately). We also come here to socialize, and some people only come here to socialize, which is all no problem, but (and this is a big BUT....err yeah ) I do feel that writing is a major aspect of the Pen. And I have to agree that writing is indeed not only story, poetry, prose...or whatever genre you chose, and can be commenting or discussing things, but when your first post on these boards is like this.....then to me it comes across as if the poster hasn't read too much before posting that post. This for the simple reason that he or she would've seen that it's not the normal way of posting here, and also not the best possible subject either. And I'm no psychologist at all, but if someone has been lurking for a long time, (somehow affraid to post maybe), don't you think he or she would come with a less provocative post? If I wouldn't be allowed to tease people anymore....well, it would take a whole lot of fun out of it for me.
Tanuchan Posted October 3, 2005 Report Posted October 3, 2005 (edited) I think there is a missing point here. Do we care for the writing or for the people? Being a bit less terse: does it look like a troll? Yes, it does. But could it have been treated differently? Yes, it could. What do we know about the person behind the post, to react in a way or another? Nothing. Was it a gentle teasing? Maybe... again, it depends on the person behind the post - how they react. Which we know nothing about. Edited October 3, 2005 by Tanuchan
Sweetcherrie Posted October 3, 2005 Report Posted October 3, 2005 Does one have to exclude the other?
Tanuchan Posted October 3, 2005 Report Posted October 3, 2005 (edited) Yes, we should care for both. That's my point. I didn't see any care for the person.... nothing personal, Sweetcherrie, you know I admire and respect you. *But* what's seen as gentle teasing for a person could be offensive for another. As I said, there's nothing personal - meaning, about the people who posted answers to the first post. I'm just saying that it's my opinion that the Doctor saw more clearly than some; and what I say isn't meant to offend anyone. Maybe elicit some thinking, if it's worth it. Edited October 3, 2005 by Tanuchan
Sweetcherrie Posted October 3, 2005 Report Posted October 3, 2005 *sighs* I guess the most sensible route for me would be to walk around these sort of posts in the future, because I see no other way on how to react to a post like this than with humour. And just to reassure people, I normally don't tend to go out and purposely hurt people with my posts, and was probably assuming that nobody around here does...my mistake...shouldn't assume. I'll just have to keep my humour in PM from now on, making sure that I know the person I'm talking to
Gwaihir Posted October 3, 2005 Report Posted October 3, 2005 (edited) may I just say that I"m so glad the pen has you both. And the doctor, lord yes am I glad we have the doctor! Edited October 3, 2005 by Gwaihir
DoctorEvil Posted October 3, 2005 Report Posted October 3, 2005 (edited) Understandable points. One of the reasons the Doctor responded to this post was due to responses by the Pen members. By DoctorEvil standards, the Pennites response to the post were rather tame In the Doctor's heyday, the Doctor would have responded with a far greater degree of sarcasism! The Doctor has not been known to have a high tolerance for stupidity and bad grammar (bad spelling is OK sometimes though). With the exception of one or two comments,the responses were certainly acceptable. Personally the Doctor thought Katzaniel's point by point response was a fairly effective response as it answered the silly questions yet made it clear what the opinion of the post was. The fact that the original poster has not responded means that the troll tag was probably approriate But occassionally, the Doctor gets these briefs flashs of....empathy, sympathy...call it what you like and the Doctor tries look at things from someone elses point of view. In this case, the Doctor tried to put the Doctor's self in the original posters POV and imagine how they might feel. From that standpoint, this place appears to be a fairly unfriendly. Which really gets into the Doctor's second and main reason for responding to this post.......which the Doctor will elaborate on after dinner Edited October 3, 2005 by DoctorEvil
DoctorEvil Posted October 3, 2005 Report Posted October 3, 2005 ARGGHHHH!!! Just spent 20 minutes writing part two and the damn system erases the post!!1
DoctorEvil Posted October 4, 2005 Report Posted October 4, 2005 (edited) Bah....the erased post was such a good one....let's try again..... The second and primary reason the Doctor responded to this post was based on the Doctor personal feelings about the Pen. For a very long time the Doctor has questioned why the Doctor is a member of the Pen and why does the Doctor keeps coming here. The answer to the first question is pretty simple, originally the Doctor followed the Doctor's favorite enemy here (and Zool & Jechum). Someone got the bright idea of actually making the Doctor a member and giving the Doctor a title. The Doctor was never very comfortable with this idea. The Doctor really never wanted to be a member, it was more of a gift. Certainly it was a gift the Doctor respected and did not turn away, but the Doctor never felt it was earned. It was primarily based on the Doctor's old humorous posts in the Archmage forums. The truth is the Doctor contributes little to these forums and reads very few posts these days. Based on this, the Doctor has never really felt like a member of the Pen, and has felt more like an outsider. That makes responding to the second question far more difficult, since what right does an outsider have to criticize? "Why does the Doctor keeps coming here?".....especially if the Doctor feels like an outsider? Simply....Friends. The Doctor has made a number of them here and even though we don't talk often, the Doctor sometimes stops by the Pen to see who's been around. That being said, the Doctor is very uncomfortable in the Pen. From the Doctor's point of view, it has a very elitest feel to it, almost like it's just a club for the "cool kids". Sometimes the Doctor just gets the feeling that if you're not good at writing creative fiction, poetry, roleplaying, etc....then there really is no place for you in the Pen. The Doctor started getting this feeling with the introduction of the Weenie Award. To the Doctor it felt like a way of saying "partcipate or you are a loser". The Doctor quickly rejected that notion of forced partcipation and began wearing the Weenie Award as a Scarlet Letter of Courage While the Doctor understands that the concept is to get a count of active members, it almost evolves into a game to see who can be more creative than the next person. While that's fun for those who partcipate, it can be overwhelming and intimidating to others. Next comes a ranking system, where people strive to climb the ladder of titles. Posting in this environment can be very intimidating for those who don't feel they meet the "standard" of the Pen. For those with obvious talent, the Pen can be a very fun and supportive place. For those with little talent, but possibly an enjoyment of writing or trying to be creative, this can be a very scary place. That's what gets the Doctor about this place. People carry on that it's "All about the writing", when the truth is that this place is really "All about the people". ****** Editors note: Yeah, the erased post was a lot better than this one....it would have made you laugh...it would have made you cry....definitely Emmy contender Edited October 4, 2005 by DoctorEvil
Peredhil Posted October 4, 2005 Report Posted October 4, 2005 I like this post. For serious writing and development, I go to Arcane Artistry. They're really good writers, and excellent at cultivating writers. The Pen is a polite place where people meet to have fun. To be creative and play off each other. To heal and laugh and cry together. To be understood, or if not understood, accepted. A Pennite doesn't have to like all other members, or any. They just have tolerate them. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and views. A Pennite accepts that others may disagree and allows them the same freedom to have a point of view. Maybe the Pen has gotten too serious, too rigid about being correct. One thing I do know. The Good Doctor *deserves* that Weenie he wears with Pride! Hugs Doctor Evil and runs away laughing before he's hit.
HappyBuddha Posted October 4, 2005 Report Posted October 4, 2005 We have standards of quality to adhere to? Oh crap, I'm screwed!
DoctorEvil Posted October 4, 2005 Report Posted October 4, 2005 Ahhh.....Weenie Primus...... See, there is a revolution going on in the Pen.....A Weenie Revolution. We should stand up and demand our own forum where we can be allowed not to partcipate
Quincunx Posted October 4, 2005 Report Posted October 4, 2005 (edited) This topic has slowed down in frequency and only recurs about once every eighteen months (which the Doctor would know if he came here more often *rimshot*, it's simply not in this forum). Maybe we should sticky our dissent, flaunt it the way you flaunt your Scarlet Snack of Courage. . .the only way I see a Weenie becoming a Letter would be chopping it up and mixing it with tomato-based alphabet soup for a bizarre type of Beanie Weenies. (Tzimfemme pauses to eat the underside of a piece of chocolate cake, leaving three crumby pillars holding up the sheet of frosting, and then returns the cake to its intended plate.) Trivia: Beanie Weenies are nicknamed "Dead Man's Fingers" here in Sweden, at least among the poor reservists who have to eat them. Off Weenies, onto Roll Calls--the open-ended format meant to reassure poets and lecturers instead resulted in a headache of non sequiturs, marvelously written, but so densely packed as to give headaches. Lecturers, we've never kept them; all I can say is that they were, except in the Pen's infancy, outnumbered by the poets of gentle demeanor and fragile soul, or fragile demeanor and gentle soul, and the Pen bleeds at the persona-less pain of an ill opinion, even and especially the ones which began this post. Someone toss a gnome up there to keep the poster amused while I collect my wandering thoughts. Damn, no use. [EDIT: Excess spaces. Sticky keyboard.] Edited October 4, 2005 by Quincunx
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