Harry Potter Spoilery

[Patrick]

Finished the book at 5 am this morning.

 

And just an idea about why Snape did what he did.

 

Let's suppose that he is on the good side. However he made the unbreakable vow. He either had to keep that vow, or die, as I understood from the book. In the vow he vowed to protect and help Draco. So IMO he had to do what he did to Dumbledore if he wanted to keep the vow.

[Gwaihir]

To put my point a different way:

D argued that the prophecy made no difference--that H would want to pursue V anyway, even if he had never heard of the curse. However, the prophecy would not have singled him out--would not have narrowed it down to wizard boys born at the end of July, even (call it doubling you out) if Harry weren't special. Remember that Trelawney really DOES have the gift--she just can't control it. Also, she is descended from a much more gifted seer. So there was something there--something already destined to be there--that prompted the prophecy. In fact, the fact that V would choose the half-blood would be factored in also, I imagine. It isn't as if the prophecy just happenned to fall on Harry (and Neville).

[Wyvern]

Wyvern twiddles his claws at his JDRollins booth, determined to refrain from revealing spoilers in order to boost interest in the new Pen pop sensation's works. The overgrown lizard bites his scaly lip and fidgets with his tail as he watches pennites casually pass by. He taps his claws on his table for a moment, then jumps up and grabs Gwaihir by the shoulders as he walks near. The lizard whispers in his ear:

 

"The false pity in the demon sequestered antagonist of 'Pompous Piety' fails to melt the protagonist's heart."

 

Gwaihir stares at Wyvern in bewilderment. The lizard casts him a sheepish glance, then lets go.

 

"Ssssorry. Just had to tell somebody."

 

;-)

[Katzaniel]

"I have stolen the real Horcrux"

I don't think so. I think it implies he has stolen this one. Might be the first, might just want to make it seem the first. At any rate, each and every one stolen must be such an ordeal that who after going through it would really consider using the plural? "I stole the horcrux" is much more satisfying than "I stole your 3rd horcrux", especially given that Voldemort wouldn't know whether he knew about them all or not.

 

One thing about RAB being any of the Blacks is, why didn't s/he inform Dumbledore somehow, or the Order anyway, that s/he was doing this?

 

Also, I was surprised reading through this thread so many echoes of my own thoughts. I too can imagine JKR thinking "There. That's plenty obvious enough that Snape is evil. Can't wonder any more, can they?" but at the same time, I am convinced that Snape isn't evil any longer. I was very surprised that he killed Dumbledore, but after I worked out in my mind that Dumbledore must have ordered Snape to kill him because he wanted Voldemort and the Death Eaters to trust him and because Dumbledore would come back (he's been closely related to phoenix's all along), I was so sure that he was coming back that actually went to sleep before reading the last chapters! But Dumbledore's already been buried, so that idea's out the window. Nevertheless, I figure Dumbledore was in along with Snape in order to cement Voldemort's trust so that Snape would be able to give Harry a leg up at the very last. I mean, it seems so much more unlikely that Dumbledore would intimate to McGonagall and Harry and who-know-who-all-else that he had some ironclad reason to trust Snape when he did not, eschewing all good sense, than the other, even if it does make me wonder why he didn't tell everyone (or someone) what he was planning so that they would be aware of Snape's position and not kill him if they came across him later. (Maybe to be certain it never slipped?)

 

I wanted to third the thoughts on "Gee whiz, another 'hero' who thinks he can't love anyone," but I do see the logic in this case since Harry plans to face Voldemort as quickly as he can, and can go back to Ginny afterward, knowing she probably won't have been targetted in the meantime, which he would have to worry about otherwise. What's a year or two in the face of a lifetime? But I do hope he gives up on the idea before long.

 

One thing I'm curious about is, is this thing about bloodlines. I know pureblood is pureblood is simple enough, but if a muggle-born can be a wizard (as in the case of Hermione and others), would the child of a muggle-born wizard and a pureblood be half-blood, or more than that? Or is it really just pure or not pure in most cases?

 

And, any bets on who's the next Defense Against the Dark Arts prof, if anyone we know? I'm rooting for Tonks. And the next Gryffindor Head? Is Hagrid from Gryffindor?

 

I know there was something else I'd wanted to say, but it's wiped clean from my head, so ciao.

Edited July 27, 2005 by Katzaniel

[Vlad]

The more and more I've thought about it, I've decided that Rowling has put Snape in a very tight position.

 

It's well known that Voldemort is quite skilled at Legilimens, which leads me to understand that he knows more about Snape's position as a double agent. If he even suspected more loyalty to the Order than to himself, I'm sure Snape would have been killed by now. Dumbledore on the other hand admitted to struggling with Legilimens on Morfin (and wouldn't even try it on Slugworth).

 

The only hope for Snape being good is a Darth Vader Moment at the end of Book 7.

[Izabella]

I wonder if Dumbledore's reason for believing Snape is an Unbreakable Vow that they made together. It's possible, but there has to be a third party, and I can't think on who would facilitate the arrangment.

 

I'm too sleepy to write more, but you get the drift.

[Katzaniel]

I remember!

 

My theory that Snape actually heard the full prophecy (I always thought it fishy that Voldemort's person just happened to walk in at the right moment to hear "just this part of it" and not more) but pretended to have missed part.

 

Vlad: Yeah, well, but Dumbledore isn't stupid, either. I guess Snape could have made Dumbledore think he knew something that he didn't... is that what you're saying?

 

Izabella: Hm. Maybe. Maybe someone who later died?

[Vlad]

Katz - as I understood it, Snape heard the beginning of the prophecy, but part-way through was... well "asked too leave" seems a bit more civil than what probably happened.

 

And on my previoius post, let me try and clarify:

 

Snape is a double-agent. Dumbledore knows this, and Voldemort knows this.

Snape has to give Dumbledore true information most of the time because that's the only way he can keep his job and a spot in the Order.

Snape has to give Voldemort true information all of the time because Voldemort can just look into Snape's thoughts. I'm not saying Dumbledore can't do the same, but he'd be much less effective at it. Voldemort is a better Legilemens than Dumbledore and would be willing to torture Snape to extract information. As I understand it Dumbledore wouldn't do that.

 

Basically it distills down to Voldemort having more information in this war than Dumbledore. And Snape being the bridge that both sides get a good deal of info from.

 

Snape's loyalties lie with Voldemort, and if he doesn't respect him more than he respects Dumbledore, he at least fears him more - which in the end will dictate his actions regardless.

[Savage Dragon]

ok, so is there no one else at this point that thinks Harry might be going back to Hogwarts, sure he said he didn't want to, but all the other books are centered around it and McGonagal (sp?) is sure as heck gonna need someone like Harry around to help the transition (who know, maybe Harry will be the next Dark Arts teacher). someone i think will talk him into coming back

 

i still wouldn't be surprised if Dumbledore pulled a Gandalf on us and magicially came back, just because hes buried doesnt mean the white tomb cant explode, and that would make an awesome scene in the movie (whenever it is).

 

the only thing in my mind that suggests otherwise is the Flight of Fauwkes, his departure was sweet and poetic and would be hard to undo, meaning we may have lost this wizard of white. however, dumbledore didnt die needlessly im sure, he was in total control of the situation with Draco on the rooftop until Death Eaters started showing up and then he suddenly became "helpless." i think he at the very least must have sacrificed himself for not only Draco's life but Snapes as well.

 

I have trouble seeing Snape as evil because there was no transition in the book at all to suggest he was turning sour (did anyone else notice that the reader was never once invited to participate in a Dark Arts class taught by Snape, mention of Homework was all that was written) if Snape is bad, then i pity him because hes going to suffer a very painful death at he hands of one of the good guys. if he's good, i pity him because he wont be able to convince anyone that he is good unless he dies for the good side. either way Snape dies in book 7.

 

and speaking of death, what makes Harry think that just because he's not dating her means Ginny is safe from it. Even if her and Harry are just "friends" she's still going to be willing to go all the way for him (well, in death at least)

 

oh and one last thing, RAB.... could the A stand for "and"? Dumbledore did mention that it would take two people to reach that locket

[Savage Dragon]

i occurs to me that if JK Rowling didnt have a 7th book planned, it would only take her 10 minutes max online to assemble enough theories to make a good book