Pirate vs Ninja

[Xaious, Master of Time]

Hey now, come on, that's cheating. At least I used a picture of myself! And besides, that's a defenseless child! I could kick it in the head and the fight would be over! Come on man!

[Gryphon]

They start training ninjas young these days grasshopper.

[Wyvern]

Wyvern steps into the Cabaret Room as the debate continues between the two parties, clearing his throat of a few ashes and handing out Almost Dragonic Brand Party Favors™ to each of the groups as he exclaims:

 

"For the record, I think it'sss ultimately a tie between pirates and ninjas... Thossse who pirate ninja gear have an advantage as they have no ethics code (thank God!) and can modify the ninja materials anyway they want, but let's not forget that the ninjas originated the style and the gear itself. The ninjas have had more practice with the materials, but the pirates have the advantage of improving upon the ninja blueprints."

 

The pirate and ninja crowds both stare at Wyvern in confusion as he grins left and right. The reptilian Elder then promptly takes out a large sack of goods.

 

"Ssspeaking of pirated ninja gear, anyone up to purchasing some Almost Dragonic Brand Semi-Sharp Ninja Twinkle Stars™? Oh, and those Almost Dragonic Brand Party Favors™ are ten geld a piece, by the way..."

 

;-)

[YanYanGanaffi]

ninja would win because they are trained disciplined fighters

Training and discipline are no match for a good flintlock pistol and a sharp cutlass

The only problem with this is a simple matter of tactics. Ninja RARELY performed missions alone. They were usually in teams of two or four. A flintlock has only one shot and takes a long time to reload, even if you have practiced a great deal at it. Ninja understood the use of shadow, stealth, and disguise. Pirates generally employed terror tactics and guns. While that is effective in it's own right, it wouldn't help the pirates much if the ninja planted a waterproof keg of black power on a small raft next to the waterline of the ship and set it off. If that's the case, I hope Jack Sparrow can swim.

 

On the issue of guns, ninja groups were one of the first to utilize firearms in mediviel Japan around the 16th century. So a group of pirates with guns might be slightly suprised when a group of 'samuri' suddenly started shooting back at them.

 

The biggest danger to a pirate, or more correctly, a pirate's ship, was fire. Pirate captian William Morgan had a rule on his ship that was one of the first anti-smoking laws ever. If you were caught smoking a pipe you were flogged. Since fire was such a problem, it would be damn near tradgic (for the pirates) for a group of ninja to use flame arrows on the sails or anywhere else on the boat.

 

 

My vote is the obvious one; ninja.

[Mira]

 

 

That's a handicapped parking sign the Calico Jack is attached to.

 

And sorry if the picture is a little huge.

[Falcon2001]

Hmm, Mira. You wouldn't happen to have stairs in your house, would you?

[Tamaranis]

You make a convincing argument for the ninja, Yanyan. But you fail to take into account the general utility of being a pirate. If you're a ninja it's all about doing what some one pays you to do, regardless, and doing the whole seppuku thing if you fail.

 

If things turn sour and your crazy scheme goes awry as a pirate, you can just sail off and plunder some improperly guarded merchant vessels. Yay.

[Katzaniel]

* Wails. *

 

Why is (nearly) everyone ignoring the fact that the question clearly states "Who would win in a fight?"?

 

We should have a second thread for the whole "Which would you rather be?" thing.

[Zadown]

Who would win in a popularity contest fight, neh?

 

[Knight]

Pirates win, by sheer numerical superiority. Ninjas take forever to train. Any average joe can be a pirate...

 

Not to mention that despite all that stealthy niftyness, I pity the poor ninjas caught out on the boat...

[cryptomancer]

I had a similar discussion about the art of swordplay..

rapier vs katana.

 

In a similar way the fighting styles are such that they can defend against each other so it is not a training or skill issue..

 

most pirates are fighters and very well experenced ones if they survive the pracitce of their trade..

 

in a fight I would normally pic the unorthodox fighter over the trained one.. simply due to the unpridictibility of the fighter.

 

Pirate all the way..

 

 

[Gryphon]

"How would you beat him?

"With a stick, while he slept"

Were I a ninja, about to engage in a one on one fight with a pirate I'd make sure that there were some small amount of distance between us before we started and I'd put a throwing star or three... or maybe some poison darts... in the pirate before we started.

 

In short I'd "cheat". Perhaps thats just me. But I'd cheat to win.

 

Considering what I know of real life however, it's likely that in some cases the ninja would kill the pirate, and in some the pirate would kill the ninja, and in all cases the winner would then go on to find someone who's better able at killing than they are later and probably not survive the experience.

[Alaeha]

In most cases, I think the Ninja would win because, as you said, Gryphon, you'd "cheat." And that's the essence of the assassin -- considered dishonorable, but highly effective. Pirates rely on the ability to hit hard enough that it hurts. That suits their lifestyle, because you can't achieve precision when inebriated. Ninja hit when and where they can hurt the most, because they adapt their lifestyle to their job, rather than becoming a pirate to support their lifestyle. It's less desirable, sure, but it's more effective.

 

Which is why any Ninja who provokes a fight without having a clear and significant advantage (such as an arrow or bullet already planted between the Pirate's shoulderblades, or the opportunity to garrote him in the shadows,) deserves to lose.

[Tamaranis]

Well two things... One is that pirates, I think, are perfectly willing to cheat. Pirates aren't usually nice people.

 

And I don't think it's a clear cut scenario of pirates being experienced fighters while ninjas are trained fighters... Pirates probably practive from time to time, and most ninjas who have been ninjaing for a while have probably put their swords to good use on occasion. In a lot of cases ninja were basically "special forces" participating in all that mad warfare going on in feudal Japan, unless I'm mistaken.

[Zadown]

Well, if we actually examine the situation with some seriousness, the answer would be ninja with no contest. When stripped of the romantic veil of fiction, pirates weren't much of a fighters really - they were the highwaymen of the seas, pretty good with all things related to sailing but in no way equal to even a soldier in combat. Ninjas, on the other hand, were the Navy SEALs of their time, trained in the arts of killing and subterfuge for most of their lives.

 

So, in terms of raw killing ability, a pirate < a soldier < a ninja, or a pirate <<< a ninja. Pirates might be cool but they were no real warriors.

[Knight]

This is so, but neither were Ninjas. Romanticism aside, Ninjas were only good for one thing: Knifing some poor schmo in the back. Face to face, against a proper samurai, they had little to no chance- the katana > Ninja-To... And it's a matter of training, once again... However, given the fact that Pirates had guns... And large numbers of them, I must place emphasis on the pirate winning the fight. Stealth, and darts, and bows, and arrows, and all those nifty things are cool, but they aren't worth spit when compared to .60caliber hand cannon....

[Tamaranis]

That .60 caliber hand cannon took five minutes to load and got horribly inaccurate out past thirty paces...

 

Ninjas were, as Zadawn put it, Navy Seals. The Japanese had guns too, and Ninja's persisted. They were heavily involved in a lot of wars, I've read some things here or there (And I can't back it up, but its something people say, so it might have some basis in truth) about Ninja presence or lack therof essentially turning the tide of a battle.

 

Considering they were so effective in battle, we have to consider a couple possibilities:

 

1) The fact that the ninja can't fight face to face is irrelevant, because you're never ever going to get a chance to fight a ninja face to face.

 

or

 

2) Ninjas were practical enough to realize some one might occasionally take a swing at them, and they were well capable of standing toe to toe against a samurai (And apparently a lot of ninja *were* samurai)

 

Now any sort of a conflict between pirates and ninja is pretty unlikely anyway, since you don't typically have a boatload of ninja sailing around looking to prove themselves superior to pirates, and pirates typically kill some people, take some stuff, and run away, not press far inland looking for worthy opponent.

 

The only way a fight between them could happen, I think, is if pirates were going to raid some port, and whoever was in charge there somehow new about it, and hired a bunch of ninja to defend it. In this scenario I think we'd see pirates get slaughtered. Not that the ninja wouldn't take casualties, but I'm thinking at least a 3:1 kill ratio, mostly due to the pirates not knowing about the ninja until it was too late.

 

Probably you wouldn't have a bunch of guys in black pajamas hiding in the shadows. Instead it would probably be more like: A quarter of the panicked, fleeing people you're currently terrorizing suddenly draw hidden weapons and become a frighteningly well coordinated enemy who strikes before there is any chance to withdraw.

 

I voted pirates are better, though, because pirates can ride burning flying sharks.

 

http://www.stanford.edu/~scodary/tkam.htm (Very silly link)

Edited January 20, 2005 by Tamaranis

[Venefyxatu]

I voted pirates are better, though, because pirates can ride burning flying sharks.

 

http://www.stanford.edu/~scodary/tkam.htm (Very silly link)

ROFL!

 

I managed to watch the entire thing, and even though I somewhat regret the time spent it was definitely worth it ...

 

On a more serious note : I agree that a fight between pirates and ninjas probably wouldn't happen, but then again, this is a hypothetical question.

My best guess after reading all the arguments is that it would depend greatly on the situation. If the ninja manages to get in a surprise attack then captain Sparrow won't even have a chance to parry, forget about a counter-attack.

However, if they started face to face, then the pirate would have a pretty good chance at walking away.

 

*realizes that's what Alaeha said*

Oh well ...

 

And as Gryphon said (if I'm stealing other people's lines anyway I might as well continue ) : the winner would probably go off to find someone with better fighting skills than themselves and receive his one-way ticket to the next world.

[Valdar and Astralis]

I'm really impressed someone put a lot of thought and effort into that, including the 3D animation. At first I thought it was all ripped off sprites, but some of the scenes really show it. A for plot and presentation, B for sound.

 

Definatley bookmarked.

 

Edit: And still Ninjas! Stupid pirates had to blow up the moon!

Edited January 21, 2005 by Valdar and Astralis

[Peredhil]

As Nyyark pointed out to me, Pirates, as anyone who watches SpongeBob Squarepants knows, can come back and haunt the Ninja as an unkillable ghost...

 

[Mira]

The importance of this debate has prompted a friend and myself to settle it once and for all. For the next ten years we shall each scour the earth for armies of unimaginable terror. Mine is to consist of only pirates, while his will be comprised of only ninjas. When the set time period of ten years is finally at its end, we will meet on the field of battle and put this mystery to an end.

 

Of course we could always just join forces and conquer the world with our unstopable Ninja-Pirate Army.

Edited January 22, 2005 by Mira

[Tamaranis]

Of course we could always just join forces and conquer the world with our unstopable Ninja-Pirate Army.

Yeah, right...

 

Maybe I'll just form a resistance consisting mostly of cats and dogs who don't kill each other at the slightest chance...

[Tasslehoff]

Id have to vote for the ninja, but ofcourse, I third Gyrfalcons thought:

 

GO PENGUINS!!!

[Vlad]

You're all forgetting about the Space-Pirate.

 

The Space-Pirate who is in a giant piece of hulking steel. Thereby removing the ninja's advantage of hiding in the shadows, etc...

[Alaeha]

However, the Space Ninja would be an elite hacker who shuts down the space pirate's piece of hulking steel. And, of course, prevents the Pirate's scanners from picking him up -- thereby eliminating any advantage the steel may have lent the Pirate in the first place.