Life Question # 15

[Appy]

Wow, Why so much explanation for replies? o__O  I always thought the pen was a place where you could say what was on your mind without fear of others taking it the wrong way.  Did people suddenly lose their sense of understanding since I have been gone?

Even though I'll prolly get told it is not so (plus I shouldn't be saying this at all for just those reasons)... I've seen all this and more happening at the pen as of late.... walls are thicker and words are prodded for meaning they don't have.

 

explains my none-involvement *sigh*

[The Big Pointy One]

:S

 

*gives everyone some cake*

 

...I'm not sure why people seem to be getting worked up here, I don't see it as that big of a deal... there's no one person saying we all have to agree. I figured this was at least somewhat open for discussion and people sharing their opinions on the matter, and as such I'm going to continue with mine. Because I'm doing so, that doesn't mean I think anyone else's is invalid; I just happen to disagree. That doesn't mean I think I'm right either, it just means I disagree. It doesn't mean I respect the holder of anyone's opinion, it just means I disagree? Cool? I hope so ;p

 

Anyways, the larger consensus here seems to be that people don't like the possibility of being a different person as compared to who they are today. I totally understand how people feel on the matter; you can't say for sure what you'd be like if things had been different in your past. However, totally denying the possibility that things could be *better* just because of the chance that they could be worse? Doesn't it seem a little silly? I mean, I know there's tons of little things, and more general big things that I regret, and if I could change them, I would, because I know I *would* be a better person today. Would my personality be the same? Probably. There's some things that don't change, unless you really want them to. Maybe it's easier for me to look at it this way because my life may not be as good as everyone else's... I really don't know. In any case, I'm just hoping everyone remembers that we don't have to take things so seriously here... it's just a question, and it's not going to change anything outside these forums, except maybe the way you might think about certain things... but even then... yeah.

 

[Peredhil]

Hmm. I think Appy's right. Things have been getting reactionary in my posts, and I'm a big part of the problem.

 

I apologize.

 

BPO - In many a college lounge lizard meeting, and after considering this very point in reaction to thought-provoking science-fiction and/or fantasy novels, I've come to the conclusion I have.

Having explored some of the changes I've made over time, in many cases it was in a reaction to something unpleasant long ago. If I'd removed some small thing that triggered one of my choices forty years ago, such as feeling unappreciated by my siblings, I really don't think I'd make as much effort to look beyond the surface of people as I do.

If I hadn't been a such a successful liar in my teens, and had the time to see and experience the long reaching effects of even the simplest lies, I probably wouldn't be the integrity fanatic I am. But this is too simplistic. I rarely have only one reason for things I do. Usually there are a multitude of factors I juggle, and eventually they break a threshold into some type of decision. The synergy of everything is who I am. Much of me is a reaction to some "bad" thing I've done or witnessed, or had done to me.

But that's ME. And that has been my frustration of late. I don't mind a thousand people stating opinions, I think it's really cool to get a glimpse into another mind. But opinions are like preferences for pizza. there's no quantitative proof that would allow me to stretch my opinions onto others.

It's like my experiences with feelings. My feelings just ARE. I've been able to choose my actions and words, and to act on or ignore my feelings, but I've never been able to control them, having them come or go at whim. The best I can do is set up situations or events that tend to lure them out - reading a favorite book for a happy moment perhaps.

With that as a factor in my own life, I wouldn't feel comfortable in telling someone else how they should or shouldn't feel. I could suggest ways they could try to change their perceptions of events if they indicate they don't like how they feel - but it is still their choice and I'm not offended if they ignore me.

I'm a fanatic on choice too, as has prolly come through strongly lately.

 

Hugs everyone.

 

It *IS* a good question, and one I've considered several times in several ways. I just have the answer which I would choose, based on how my internal processes work. I'd be surprised if one answer fit everyone - I've never been considered the baseline for "normal"!

[Crichon]

So I take it the answer Regel wanted was an actual example of something we regret? I'm kinda lost as to what he was really meaning. I, myself, don't feel comfortable expressing actions in my life of which I may or may not regret. I understand that you guys have all known each other a while, so it may not be a big deal for you to post such a thing, but I will not.

 

The reason I choose not to live with regret of my actions is because it's pointless. Sure, there are things I would love to change, but it's not going to happen. If I spent all of my time regretting my actions, I'd be a pathetic human being. But personally, I'd rather learn from how I screwed up, rather than sit around crying wishing I could change something.

[Vigil StarGazer]

Have you ever experienced a moment of regret in your life that you would go back and change if you had the power to do so?

I regret the moment that i was born...

I wish my parents would just forgo that 5 seconds of pleasure and just come to their senses...

Edited August 11, 2004 by Vigil StarGazer

[Gwaihir]

I regret the people I've yelled at and the feelings I've hurt. I don't wager that my life would be that much different if I hadn't, but still I'd be happy to think it'd not happened.

[Salinye]

Part B to Regel's Question:

 

"Having changed this single event, speculate on how your life might be different today."

 

 

~Salinye

[Valdar and Astralis]

*Derails and runs Rune over in a hugtacklemobile*

[Appy]

Pered - pm

 

on the rest of your post:

 

If I hadn't been a such a successful liar in my teens, and had the time to see and experience the long reaching effects of even the simplest lies, I probably wouldn't be the integrity fanatic I am.

Got that right.... had exactly the same experience heh, and I'm glad I had the chance to live it.

Isn't by fault that we learn our most interesting/most precious/most important lessons?

 

I'm sorry that I can't answer the question in a way that would be satisfactory for you Regel, but I have good reason I believe....

If I would change anything at all in my past, wether I would've had something like regret about it or not, I would probably and most likely never have met my husband in a way that would've allowed us to find eachother the way we did, with everlasting, all consuming (in a good way) love.

 

It's a good reason not to regret my life I'd say

 

Another is that I've learned so much, which I would've never learned had I not made those mistakes... thinking about that, I don't think I would want to change anything other people decided for me... although it would've saved me a *peep*amount of emotional stress. All I hope for is that they learned too...

 

-Appy

 

PS: Woah.... *tackles Regel and hits him on the head with her moose for making her think so much* (all in a good friendly way ofcourse... as friendly as a adult moose can get *grin*)

Edited August 11, 2004 by Appy

[Regel]

Dear friends, I do not sit in judgement here and I must agree with this wise man.

 

Reg, I think you should've added instructions needed for the question in the initial writeup- I can see where they both have that opinion, the way it was written up; the question, and your response to our responses.

 

Many of us did not follow the strictures you'd built the questions in, and so you needed some to rethink how they answered, so that all could be discussing what you really meant. That's fair.

The problem with the written word is simple, you can't see my face nor posture nor hear the tone of my voice. No visual clues, no auditory clues just the stripped bare words on the page. So I would like to begin again.

 

I recently I watched two movies one the highly acclaimed movie Monster and the second was called The Butterfly effect. I was deeply disturbed by the theme of both movies but in a thought provoking way. (The old there but the grace of god go any of us.)

 

In "Monster" Charlize Theron's character was forever changed by an event that was out of her control. Sexually molested by a close family friend as a child she found her family siding with the family friend and not her. She ends up running away as a fifteen year old surviving the mean streets by prostituting herself. Her world spirals downward eventually turning her into a monster that kills to survive.

I went away from viewing this saying "..she never had a chance."

 

The second movie was equally thought provoking and quite likely the reason the question formed in my head. A young boy discovers he has inherited his father's ability to view an image or reread a diary recalling a moment in time and returning to that exact moment. Decisions he made as a child were tempered by his older selfs experience and intellect. The changes he made (even the smallest ones) created huges changes in the courses of peoples lives. Without giving the entire story line away the title is based on Chaos Theory principles.

 

http://www.imho.com/grae/chaos/chaos.html

 

 

I thought that it would be extremely interesting and revealing exercise to entertain the mind and inspire some interesting writing. So here was the idea I passed along to Salinye.

 

 

Have you ever experienced a moment of regret in your life that you thought about going back and changing if you had the power to do so?

I am betting it would make a lively topic of discussion.

There is a part 2 to this. "Having changed this single event, speculate on how your life might be different today."

Once again I do apologize to those of you I obviously offended. My intention was only to challenge you to think of how these events might have influenced you and perhaps inspire some interesting fiction.

Edited August 13, 2004 by Regel

[Rune]

*Derails and runs Rune over in a hugtacklemobile*

*giggles*

 

[Aardvark]

I wouldn't be reading this thread.

 

I'd probably also have one eye swollen shut

[Ozymandias]

*Derails and runs Rune over in a hugtacklemobile*

*giggles*

 

An Ice Elemental in a metallic blue party hat, standing on the fringes of the crowd gives the little demonness a wave, and showers Crchon's head with the resultant fall of icicles when it smiles.

[Ayshela]

*nods* this is actually a question, a topic, i've spent quite a lot of time considering, over the last 22 years. Every time, it comes to the same answer.

 

Are there things i regret in my life? certainly.

are there things in my life i would have done differently had i known *then* what i know *now*? most certainly, though i concede that most of them would involve leaving dead bodies lying about.

 

and yet - are there any of those things i would go back, from here and now, to change *then*? no, probably not.. because every one of those events led me to where i am now, and i wouldn't give up where i am now. Would i be a different person? most certainly, though i can't with equal certainty say that would be better.. whereas who i am now, and who i want to become, i have here and now influence over, and that i wouldn't change either.

 

given that you intended no judgement, i'll go ahead and answer.. though i recognize that the only answer i have does not lead on to the second part of the question.

[WrenWind]

If I had gotten my degree ? Hmm! I imagine a lot would be different in my life now. I probably wouldn't be married or have kids. I would still be in the army trying to help soldiers deal with the things they have experienced. A fancy appartment off base a little sports car and I would probably be very lonely.

 

*smiles* I really do like who I am now!

Edited August 12, 2004 by WrenWind

[Katzaniel]

Neither does mine. But I'd like a shot at it anyway, so I'm going to slightly alter the question, if no one minds. What if I had initially done something differently?

 

For interest's sake, I will pick a moment many years ago. Ah yes.. what about at the point of time where I was the student who had been picked out to be picked on? What if instead of living through 3 years of self-confidence bashing terrorizing by the students in my elementary school, I had switched schools?

 

Well, I would never have learned how to deal with other kids, never understood their desire to be popular, never seen how egotistical and unknowing most of them are. I went through a long, long period of readjusting my self esteem, relearning how to talk to people, look them in the eye, speak my opinion. I am still not finished remodelling myself after those years. I am still a much quieter kid than I'd ever been, but I finally have some confidence again. Anyway, without that I would have more confidence in one way, but less in another, since I would not have worked to get it.. I guess I am saying it would be more fragile. When I went to high school and met the same kids, and some different ones too, I would not have known how to deal with them. Possibly I would have gone through the same whole ordeal but a little later... but it would have been different. I would not have had my english teacher to help me relearn how to talk in front of a class. I would not have joined debate to help myself learn how to present a point. I would not have made all the friends that I did in university, and of course I would not still be good friends with the few people from elementary school that treated me well. Would I know the same people from high school? Probably not, since many of them were introduced to me via the elementary school friends. My boyfriend of many years? Likely not. Who's to say whether I'd have a boyfriend at all, or maybe many failed ones? I'd have a whole different set of friends, and they would probably reflect this other me. They might be more or less shy, hard to say... they might not have placed the same importance on schoolwork, meaning I would not have graduated with as high an average, I would not have had the luck I've had with finding jobs.

 

Very, very likely, had I switched schools so many years ago, I would still be single, I would have a minimum wage job (nothing wrong with that, except that it doesn't look so good on a resume) and be in a totally different field in university. Of course all that puts me in a totally different place for the rest of my life after this point... I'd truly be a totally different person.

 

Not to mention the effects that would have on my friends, who would no longer know me, my boyfriend, who may or may not have found another girlfriend, the person who would have gotten the scholarships I didn't, my english teacher, whose life I have recently reentered, my boss, who would have settled for someone who might not have gotten the job done... and everyone who would be affected by each of those people's altered lives.

 

This good enough, Regel? Interesting topic, indeed.

[Gryphon]

Funny thing is that while there is a number of things I regret that I'd like to go back and do over, or again, or sooner or something I'd want an undo button because I've a funny feeling deep down that I'd regret changing the moment in the past, and that regret would be greater than the original.

 

The question that has always plagued me is rather this: What if you had the power at any given time to go back exactly 1 minute (or 5 minutes might be more appropriate) and only 5 minutes so that any things that you regret immediately afterwards could be fixed or undone or done again better.

 

It wouldn't help now to solve things that went wrong an hour ago but how much happier would life have been on a day to day basis if I could undo the little things that I do and then immediatly think to myself "gods that was so stupid"

[The Big Pointy One]

Peredhil- That's the answer I was looking for ;p ...after all, if you can honestly say your life turned out for the best today, then there's nothing wrong with it. To me, it just seemed like everyone was discarding the possibility of change altogether. Plus, maybe because I'm at a different point in my life right now, I have a different perspective. Basically, I'm at the point where I can still change a lot of things that I regret, but it'd be easier if I could go back and change myself.

 

To continue on, in response to part 2 of Regel's question...

 

I've been pondering the very same question the last few years especially. There are a few things I regret a lot. The number 1 thing I think is the point where I basically stopped giving a crap about anything (I'd say roughly around the age of 11... :S) and just stopped doing anything worth any merit. I stopped caring about school work, and I stopped caring about my general well-being. If I could go back, I'd make it so I kept with my studies, and kept a bit more active. Today, I'm so lazy it's embarassing. It's sad, really. If I had changed these things, I'd be in better shape, I probably would have gotten straight A's all the way to Valedictorian (I am still confident in myself that I am smart... I got through high school with minimal effort, and I probably still did better than a lot of people... if I had applied myself, I honestly believe there wouldn't be very many people who'd stand above me academically.) and I'd still be in school, on my third year, with a high average. My first semester of university I thought to be real easy, and if I had my study skills, I'd probably be at the top of my class. (call me arrogant, but it's just one of those things I'm sure of)

 

Now, would I be the same person I am today? I'd like to think so. Just because I studied harder, I don't think that'd make me fall in with a different crowd. I still would have met my 3 best friends from high school, and still would have had mutual interests, not to mention a mutual dislike for the general crowd. The only major difference is that I would have had a bit less time to goof off. Perhaps I'd be a bit more serious, but I don't really think so. After high school, and when I met a few more people, I think I'd still have the same friends I do today. I met my current best friend through lasertag, and the only difference I think is that I would have been a bit better at the game (we became friends after going to a regional tournament together) As a writer, I'd probably have a bit of a better vocabulary and I'd probably be better at it. I've been interested in creative writing since I learned how to write, so that would definitely not change. All in all, I honestly believe I'd be a better person today. I'd be more dedicated, and definitely healthier. However, these are still things I can change today, and hopefully I will...

[Lady Celes Crusader]

Regel: I did answer the question my way, just not the way you're expecting it. Sure I did made bad things, mistakes in the past but why regretting doing these? I've learn from these and move on because I know clearly that I cannot go back in time and change my behavior at that moment. That's why I've said regrets are useless because they deny experience. Someone wise told me that someone who had lots of experience is someone who made lots of mistakes and learned from these. Life experience contributes to shape whom I am so it's pretty hard to fathom whom I'll be if I havent done this mistake.

[Regel]

As a child I believe I was both charmed and cursed. In the space of four years I had accumulated so many person injuries it was alarming. Along with the scars was the reputation of personal carelessness. One serious injury after the other. The most damaging was the result of my attempt to walk a garden hose (my tight rope) along side an open stairwell. I lost my balance (due to an inner ear infection) resulting in a fall of 15 feet down the backside of a stairwell. Some how I managed to land on my left arm and not my head. I had lost conciousness briefly

but when I awoke their was a dull pain coming from my arm. It looked odd and something wasn't quite right at what I was viewing. There was a huge lump in the crux of my arm. Slowly my 10 yaer old mind came to realize that I was looking at my dislocated elbow sitting in a very unnnatural position. The result of this was a disfigured arm and a four inch scar that resembles a crude caterpillar. I have often wonder how different my life might have been with out this crooked arm I was left with. I recovery most of my mobilty and strength but because the bone was offset I was never able to lock my left arm. When I tried people would gawk and I felt very self concious. If I was to go back and change that simple act my arm might be straight today but there is no way to be sure that anything else in my life would still be there. I am sure that I would have been stronger as a teenager and certainly more confident. I was a late bloomer in that area perhaps that would have come sooner. A more confident version of myself would have acted differently and could see that I could have gone off in an entirely different direction. If I was suddenly placed in that moment approaching that fall the question facing me is would I allow myself to fall like I did the first time. I am not sure that I could deliberately go through that again but if I didn't I would erase everything I have become and changed the course of other peoples lives. I would not be able to foresee the consequences, what a dilema.

Edited August 14, 2004 by Regel

[Ozymandias]

Dear Appy and Rune,

 

The tension you see comes from those times we all have in our lives when we have been hurt so badly that we watch *everyone* as a potential source of harm; friends and enemies alike.

 

The Pen is no exception to this, because we, as a community are still made up of people, and this is just a natural reaction that human beings have. The Pen remains the same community you grew to know and love, but even in the very best situations, no matter how well people on this site may be willing to treat you, others in your life won't be so supportive or friendly. Not all others, mind you. But *some* just won't care about hurting you.

 

Problems have reared their heads here more often lately than they have in the past, but I say it speaks to the strength of our community how infrequently they do happen, and how much support is given when our personal problems *do* bleed out onto others, no matter how hard we try to make sure they don't.

 

...I can attest to that from personal experience more times than I like to admit..

 

Don't give up, please. Don't give up even on smaller things here; even if it's not a question of giving up on the Pen. We'd still be losing a part of you. I know the Pen would not be the same without either of you.

 

And I'd miss each of you.

 

Regel,

 

I'm glad I offered helpful words. I always try to...but the results tend to be a mixed bag. I'm *very* glad I could in this.