Life Question 14...

[Salinye]

Do you consider yourself religious and/or spiritual? If so or not, what is religion and/or spirituality to you?

 

(Again, sorry, it's been a while since I posted one of these and I stopped counting how many we're on now!)

 

~Salinye

[Peredhil]

Yes.

My center.

 

[Guest Kunax]

I dont belive in anything, well perhaps i belive in people.

For me mytholigy and religion are a sources of entertainment and good stories. Even if some of the stories are very good i dont belive in any of it, least of all any of the major religions,

 

edit: you have done more of thies, is there some special purpose to them or just ilde chatter.

Edited July 26, 2004 by Kunax

[Lady Celes Crusader]

Although that some of my values are shaped upon what is written in the Bible (ie don't do to the others what you don't want to be done to you), believing into a "God" which I fail to see it's existance is just nonsense to me.

 

I'd rather believe in my own capabilities and into what I can do.

[Regel]

Always the big question with you. Well my answer is yes to both as it would have to be. Why, is perhaps the bigger question? If you believe like I do that we are more than just the elements that comprise our bodies then you are also spiritual. A spirit, life force, self aware intelligence (call it what you will) exists in all of us.

I was never a big on formal religon but when you are young you believe in your own invincibility. Your physical and mental quickness is all you needed, but I found out it wasn't enough. I needed to believe in something to indeed centre my life. It is where life begins to make sense, a frame for an otherwise abstract painting. I am sure that there are good and evil forces battling over these souls. I know which side I am cheering for.

[Salinye]

Kunax~

 

I originally started these questions as food for thought. I find I like looking through the little windows of insight that people give when they answer them. I like to know who some of the people behind the writers are. Also, they are fun and so far, people have been able to respond with conflicting opinions in peaceful and non offending ways. :0)

 

I post them still because people have requested that I continue to do so and also because I really enjoy reading the answers and answering them myself.

 

~Salinye

[Guest Kunax]

interresting indeed, can we hear your answers to the questions, or are you waiting?

[Appy]

I consider myself spiritual, if that means believing there's something outthere that we have no 'scientific' proof of yet...

Religious in my mind has too much to do with churches and, to be blunt, sheeps and herders.

If you're asking if I have Faith though, then yes, I do... not in a god, but in energy and balance.

Even unbalance is a balance of sorts

 

Then for the Kung-fu people among you, there's The Way or (ofcourse) kung-fu. I do not practise the sport myself, but I have stood on the way and cannot deny it's existance.

 

(to be continued for those interested)

 

PS: Never stop Sal! *big hugs*

Edited July 26, 2004 by Appy

[Finnius]

Wow...

And Sal picks the toughie again.

 

Ok, here's what I believe to be true.

 

Religion, while good on paper, is ultimately corruptable by the human institutions which guide it. Why? Because we're flawed, greedy, stupid, power-hungry animals. Which isn't to say that we aren't capable of good things, or that individuals can't be good people. I think that the community around here contains some of the best, kindest individuals I've ever been blessed to know.

 

That said, having brought this up with many and sundry pastors, preachers, priests, fathers, reverends, etc, etc... (I used to play music for churches.) They generally listened politely and then informed me, like I was some kind of eight year old, that whatever changes happened in the church, it was God's guiding hand and His will... whatever that meant.

 

Basically, that God had instituted change in the church via mortal means.

 

Couldn't really wrap my brain around that one, looking at some of the things I'd been asking about. Just seemed kind of cardboard. So I went spelunking through religion for a few months. Still a hobby of mine, actually... there's great philosophy in religion, and some very nice tennets for life. I started to notice patterns. And so my spiritual view is as follows:

 

Like the old Celtic druids said:

1. All the gods are one. When the Roman Catholics tried to stamp out druidism in the British Isles, several prominent leaders came to them, trying to make them understand that their religions were not so different. (Which, if you can track down a copy of the book of Pherylt, is true.) The Catholics wouldn't hear of it, and ended up slaughtering many innocent people. However, you can see druidic practices in many Catholic rituals.

 

A few of the druids jumped ship and hid themselves inside the Catholic church, influencing policy for years afterwards, and bleeding druidic doctrine into the Catholic machine. Just a little cool history lesson for you.

 

2. God, in whatever form cannot be all-knowing, all-powerful, and loving. Two of those, yes. All three, no. And since I choose to believe in a loving god... it's the all-powerful that I usually settle on. Very powerful, incredibly powerful, yes. But not infinitely powerful.

 

3. A personal relationship with God has served me far better than organized religion. I feel better, and I'm a better person now than I was under any kind of church doctrine. I dictate my own morality, through a conscience that I now know works. And that morality can change to fit the situation.

 

There's more, but it's all common sense stuff...

In any case, I'm a little burned out as for how to end this so...

There it is.

[The Big Pointy One]

If I fit into any common description, I guess you could say I'm agnostic. I believe that there is much more to the world than what we see with our bare eyes. However, I don't believe so much in the scripture side of religion. Granted, it does help a lot of people in our world, I don't think that's my path. I'm trying to learn about all sorts of religions; right now I'm learning about the Qabalah, which is quite interesting. I don't think any religion is more right than another, especially considering how time seems to warp things. Regardless, I'm not very actively spiritual, I mostly just have this underlying belief of there being something more to our lives, like I said above. This doesn't bother me, however, because I also believe as long as you don't start killing people and such, you should have nothing to fear in terms of the afterlife. Of course, there could be more to it than that, depending on your belief... sometimes I think there are steps one needs to take, but that's delving too deep...

[Gryphon]

I don't consider myself to be religious or spiritual. I feel no need to be, no need to believe.

 

I believe that ultimately religion is either a crutch for the desperately needy - or maybe a method of control imposed by institutions such as churches to tell people how they should act or think - or a perch for the self-righteous to look down on others - or a refuge for people who think like sheep who'd rather be told what to do and how to do it and when to do it than to think for themselves...

 

Some of the most important people in my life believe otherwise in some cases quite strongly. They're welcome to do so, mainly because I believe that everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and as long as they're not forcing the belief of their own choice off on others then they can do what they want.

 

Its funny, because by and large I think I live my life by many of the same tenants as those who get all hyper-religious, but I dont feel the need to cling to a belief system to go with my lifestyle. I guess my point is that there is only 2 times when I have a problem with religion in general and that is when someone tries to force it on me, or tries to force it on others without letting them make their own choice in the matter.

 

The strange thing is that there's always someone who seems to feel the need to convert me to their point of view/religion/whatever. To them I say, keep your religion, I find may find it as offensive as you find my lack of religion to be, yet I can live with you believing in something I don't. Is it so hard for you to do the same for me?

 

edit: I almost forgot... I decided that if I was going to take up a religion I'm gonna be a Jedi

Edited July 27, 2004 by Gryphon

[Aardvark]

For a while there, I was your standard Roman Catholic. I was dragged to church every sunday, went to a catholic school, went through the sacraments, etc, etc. Then for no reason, the dragging ceased. And secular schools, even selective ones, were far cheaper than catholic schools. So the whole religion thing just ended there. Then I had a religious experience. I was in a poker game with God, Satan and some dude dressed up as Santa Claus. God and Satan were arguing because Satan reckoned God was palming aces, but all I could think was, "Man, that's a stupid looking beard"

 

So now my thoughts on the matter are yeah, there's a God, there's a Satan, but I believe in them the same way I believe that I'm really breathing oxygen. They're there, that's enough for me. Which is why I find doorknocking bible thumpers amusing. To me it's like someone going door to door selling cans of air.

 

Church is merely a sunday social gathering/mass gossip session, funerals are for the living, weddings are an excuse to cash in on a legal process, charity work... ok, that's probably doing something good for the world, but the work done by the various institutions who demand a tithe instead of ask for a donation, or the ones who have credit card machines to take donations, I see them as godless corporate swine who will burn in hell along with all other capitalists, celebrities, corporate puppets and anyone who writes, produces, directs, stars in or watches reality TV.

 

And advertisers. And politicians, the ones who I don't vote for. Skinhead, fascist neo-nazi idiots. The nazis lost, you idiots, you deserve to burn. Whoever's responsible for this latest rash of speed cameras to pop up around my home city. It's the most blatant revenue raising tactic I've ever seen. And hasn't done a thing for the accident rate, even in the "Black Spots" they've put the bastards. Here's an idea, you walking corpses, why not put more police on the roads? Only dickheads speed around them and anyone who's stupid enough to speed in front of a marked copper deserves damnation. Satanists, too. You wanna burn, fine. Yeah, he's an alternative to God, but he lost, too. And didn't even get to take on the big man. Got kicked in the arse by a lackey. What a tool. Fine, you want him, you got him. And his pitchfork waving goonsquad. And lakes of fire. Biblethumping doorknockers. Door-to-door God salesmen. Anyone who combines religion and capitalism in any way, shape or form. You're all going to burn. Hell, I'll even stop by with a canister of napalm, just because I'll probably burn, too. Scientists who spent their time working out the correct Ph balance for healthy skin. BURN! Cosmetics sales people. BURN! Hell, the whole fashion industry. BURN! Barbers, hairdressers, hair stylists, anyone who cuts hair and charges for it. BURN!... except the dude next to where I work. Who hasn't screwed up my boringarse haircut ever, unlike the other twits I've had the misfortune to try. You get salvation. Along with the hot chicks in tight black uniforms you've got working for you. People who listen to rap, hip-hop, techno, rnb, pop, etc at full volume through some kind of subwoofer that takes up the back of their car while driving anywhere. Oh, there's a special place reserved in hell for you. It involves bolted down plastic chairs, straight out of your worst primary school memory, with spikes all over it, in a hall with perfect acoustics, where the great maestros of the ages play the finest music for eternity. The ones who were damned, anyway. And, yeah, you'll be on fire the whole time. The entire Ford corporation. BURN! Insurance companies of any kind. BURN! French, or any other nationality, chefs who are extra snooty. BURN!! Telemarketers, especially for charity. BURN! Televangelists... well, you're all burning anyway, but you deserve it moreso. George Lucas... you get murgatroid. Because I know you're going to screw up the third one. So that makes three alright, three that suck. The three people who own most world media. BURN BURN BURN!!@! The paparazzi. God, you're burning so bad I can taste it. Anyone affiliated with women's magazines. You're all damned, they're calibrating their thumbscrews in anticipation, you whores. People associated with men's magazines... well.. umm... ok, you're fine. At least people get what they paid for. Anyone who's ever goatse'd anyone. You're burning. Same goes for tubgirl and lemon party, you sick bastards. Eternal exposure is your only reward, you losers. Script kiddies. There's no redemption for you, you little turds. Counterstrike players. The ones who take it too damn seriously. For you there's an eternal server, where everyone but you is a cheater and you never get any money. Anti-globalisation nerds, anti-cloning idiots, anti-rock tools, anti-violence morons, anti-sex fiends and anyone who thinks censorship is really necessary. Oh, there's a spikey pit of burning, itchy, icky hell waiting for you annoying bastards. People who say Clerks was better than Mallrats, then justify their choice with "Oh, you hated clerks because it was in black and white." You losers. You deserve to have your eyeballs pecked out and rectally inserted before you burn for that one. While we're on stupid comparisons, people who argue Startrek Vs Starwars. You get reincarnation. As the same stupid nerds you were before. Fanfic writers. Yeah, it's a can of worms on a writer board, but I'm of the opinion that using someone else's characters/setting without their express permission deserves death and damnation. Moreso if you include yourself in the story, have the characters in erotic situations, turn them into furries or all of the above. Hell, anyone who writes, reads or fantasises about furries, you're all going to burn. You're destined for a pit full of blowtorches. Videos stores who don't have Evil Dead in stock. BURN! Music stores who don't stock This Is Serious, Mum. Australian ones. It's understandable for anyone else on earth, seeing as they're really only relevant to anyone who lives here. BURN!!@# Commercial radio. All of them. BURN, you bastards, BURN. Well, not FBI. That's sorta commercial, even though they keep telling us it's a sponsorship deal. They play good music, so they get salvation. People who drive Lancers, Civics, Mirages, Excels, Pulsars or anything else with excessive rice. You're all burning. Anyone over the age of 10 who owns a razor scooter. BURN! Anyone who submits their own quotes to bash.org. BURN! Animal activists. BURN! Militant vegetarians who complain about my 90% meat diet. BURN! People who say anything is "Against God" BURN! People who say I'm going to hell. BURN! Anyone else who states the bleeding obvious. BURN! Anyone who is going to leave a pile of debts to their offspring when they die, medical and unpaid mortgage excluded. Unless you only pay interest. BURN BURN BURN, you yuppie wankers. Feminists. BURN! Wifebeaters. BURN! Psycho ex-girlfriends EVERYWHERE. BURN! Stalking ex-boyfriends EVERYWHERE. BURN! Paedophiles. Oh, there's a circle of hell reserved for you, you sick bastards. Especially the ones supposedly in God's service. Along with rapists and molestors, you pathetic dickless little bastards. You're all going to burn and burn well you shall. People who insist I fix my terrible diet. Well... no, ok I take that one back. They're right.

 

I think that's it. That's gotta be a sizable chunk of the world's population burning right there.

[Salinye]

Well, I definitely have strong feelings about both religion and spirituality. I do often think they coincide, but not always. I think most good religions tend to have spirituality entwined within them. I would call myself both a religious woman and a spiritual woman. I spent the better part of my life dabbling and studying as Stick mentioned, many different religions until I found one that brings me happiness.

 

I don’t think I could honestly be labeled as a desperately needy person, nor as a person who is sheep like and refusing to think for herself. I feel like I have found a structured religion that works for me. I follow it, not because someone tells me I should, but because I choose to. I want to. It brings me happiness. Why would I not do something that brings me so much joy?

 

Now, as for spirituality…I treasure my spirituality more than my religion. Granted, my religion is based around spirituality. My personal relationship with God is by far the most important part of my religious/spiritual beliefs.

 

Now, I can understand why some people get a negative impression of religion. There are people who wield religion as a weapon to get people to conform to their beliefs. There are people who use religion for the very means that it opposes. That truly is a sad thing. But that is also when I have to remember that people error and spirituality doesn’t. People can twist and distort religion, but they can’t hurt spirituality for that is a very personal thing. However, just because religion CAN be warped, doesn’t mean all religion is. I believe good and bad can probably be found in all things.

 

A man I admire once had this to say about his religion and others. “Tell your friends to bring the truths that they have found to the table, and see what truths you can add to them.” Even though I have found a set religion that I choose to follow, I still love to study other religions and belief systems. I love to find the truths in different religions. They are there, even if there are things I don’t believe threaded with them. I don’t feel a need to put down others religions or lack of, because I’m happy they have found a life that works and hopefully enhances their own spirituality.

 

Finally, on the thought of forcing your beliefs on others, I will only speak on the subject of religions that fall under the flag of Christianity. Christ never forced anything, and for us to do so goes against the gospel. When people do that, they may not realize it, but they are acting against the very gospel they are likely preaching. So I would encourage people to remember that People error. We all error.

 

Anyway, I guess that’s all I have to say about that at this time. I hope it makes sense. :0)

[Valdar and Astralis]

omg, 'vark

[Justin Silverblade]

Do I consider myself religious? No.

 

Spiritual? Nope. (Though, I'll bet if you tweak the definition of spiritual, then I'd fit. The minute I saw that part of the question, I wanted to know what you meant by "spiritual")

 

What does it mean to me? The greatest works of art that humanity's created - no joke. Absolutely (and sometimes tragically) breathtaking.

 

 

This subject has been on my mind for a while actually, and I was recently faced with a more direct question as to why "I don't believe." I'm having great fun putting my beliefs (and more specifically my disbeliefs) down fully on paper. Funny how things coincide sometimes.

 

Finnius - I would LOVE a chat with you about it sometime. I don't feel similarly, but I think that you share some of the same basics as I do, and (even if I'm wrong) it'd be great to toss around some thoughts.

 

Same goes for anyone, for that matter - no need to be politically correct, just send me a message! Be real.

 

- Justin

[reverie]

my eyes my eyes... wow, Aardvard... you nearly burnt out my eyes* with that rant... and what a rant it was...

 

*in recovery from laser surgery...

 

hmm, on spirtuallity...

 

I used to consider myself spirtual... now I'm not so sure.

 

I come from a mostly Southern Baptist Christian background, with some Seventh day Adventist thrown in for good measure... Add to that my mother's buddist background and my own investigations into Taoism, Gnostic and Unity thought and you get one thoroughly confused individual...

 

So pretty much, I put my faith on hold. Yep, yep, i'm taking spirtual vacation which mostly amounts to a slow yet continual rebellion against my Christian Roots... I've nothing againt Christ, but dogma from a newbie follower that is just repeating what has been fed him/her sickens me... Actually a evangliser of any faith annoys me...

 

Hmm, but I do relize the value and power of belief...Discplined belief or release in some aspects can grant you a heighted insight or awarness into life... and I do look for those that can trancend all the hiprocracy and raise to that level... However, they are few and far between and I haven't the energy to follow or even look for them anymore...

 

Interestingly enough, I once had a persistant leg injury which lasted well into a year cleared up by a faith healer... Not some big tent or televised deal, just a fellow soldier with strong beliefs who happend to see me limping across the way from him... A few words, a brief touch, and a good nights sleep later the wound was 90% healed... and was totally healed within the next two weeks... Yet, not even a year later, I come to find out that the same guy gets kick out of the army for robbing a Pawn shop... So a would be thief heals a broken man ready to believe in anything... He get thrown in jail and I go on to run four Marathons... Go figure?

 

revery

the dreamlost

"You may be right

I may be crazy

But it just may be a lunatic your looking for" ~Billy Joel YOU MAY BE RIGHT

the dream continues...

[Gryphon]

Aardvark, I have no clue if you meant that to be funny... but if you did, you succeeded admirably in my eyes... funniest damn thing I've read in ages.

 

If not... oops.. well it struck a funny bone here.

[Peredhil]

Hugs Aardvark is a purely platonic way, knowing he'll burn for it anyway.

 

While I don't necessarily agree with what you wrote - reading that well-written rant was pure delight.

 

Back to the question at hand. There is a "religion" mentioned in the bible, but it's not what I tend to experience in the world. So I tend to differenciate between religion and spirituality based on usage.

Started out in a "church" filled with well-meaning people whom I still love, but the inconsistencies and internal errors didn't fit my idea of a perfect God. About age nine started going out and studying other religions and spiritual systems, examining each one and finding pieces and parts of truth, but too many internal errors. My biggest test if one looked good was to try to put it into operation in my life. A religion should *work* the way it says it does, in my opinion.

Ended up about age 20 heading back to the bible with an attitude somewhat similiar to Aardvark's actually. A tad bit angry and disappointed. Started reading the bible, and researching as I had the other religions and systems, putting aside the traditions I'd been taught in "churches", and found a pretty internally consistent handbook for God's relationship with mankind. Not a history book, not a physic's book, a relationship field manual. Put it to the test and it worked. Still is. So I'm going with it still twenty-plus years later.

So yeah, I'm a Christian, pretty hard-core about my personal beliefs. However, I figure if God is willing to give everyone else Free Will about what they believe, it sounds okay for me too. I prefer to love people over judging them - I try to leave the judgement to God and the ego-games to people who need them. I'd rather live my beliefs than be preachy about them.

 

Beautiful rant against what people do to people though, Aardvark. Gives him a burning high-five.

 

-Peredhil

[Zadown]

Religion (or spirituality) is a tool for other people to annoy me. Or amuse me, sometimes.

[cryptomancer]

Ok, first my religious background.

 

Born baptized and raized as a methodist, (middle name Wesley) very methodist.

spent sundays of my childhood learning the path of christian belief from the protestant point of view. At 14 I comitted myself to a personal relationship with the Lord. To this I still hold.

 

Spent 3 years at University, studying the art of drinking, got kicked out ater my third year, spent a long time looking into the reflected image of myself, seeing myself in light of a belief system that I was not living. To this end I asked questions, asked for clarification, and got answers from only one place.

In my final year at uni, I became Catholic, because for all the strife and errors of humanity in the greater organisation, well, they were the only ones that gave me the doctrine that they proclaimed. The belief system on which the faith was based, and the answers to my questions. Some of the answers I did not like, but I have a choice, as we all do. Humanity has the greatest gift. Free will.

 

Spirituallity.

 

Here I show my nature. I believe that there is a spiritual side to life, it is something that I cannot deny. I have seen it, experenced it, and use it in my life.

One of my recent posts, "vision from a treetop" is an account of one such experence. I have had others. I freely use meditation, and sprituallity in my training, my life, and strongly believe that I am able to augment my physical strength through spiritual focus. I have visions that explain things to me, I see things that later happen. No I do not think I am psychic, and cannot see what I wish. But I believe I am shown things, some I hope never happen, but if they do, I will be able to deal all the better with them for knowing.

 

Edited July 27, 2004 by cryptomancer

[Lady Celes Crusader]

Aadvark: That's one of a kind rant that is amazingly hilarious.

 

BTW, I've been born and raise as a Roman Catholic, went through all the sacraments, went to Catholic schools until College and my mom is a fervant believer who did study theology.

[Yui-chan]

On religion:

 

"For us, by us. We use it for social control, the proliferation of law and order, and to manufacture meaning where we need it. It serves its purpose, for the most part, but it is not as grand as some omnipotent being's Will being done on earth. Most certainly, I don't believe that there's a human-faced 'god' up there somewhere who actually watches me write a post on the Mighty Pen and plans births, deaths, wars and daily trials for all of us. I've never been sure whether to envy or pity the people who truly believe that to be the case, but I do know that I respect their right to trust as they will. It makes them feel better about this nasty world of ours, and I would like them to feel good about their lives."

 

On spirituality:

 

"Energy created me. Energy sustains me. Energy defines me and everything I see, do and make. At its core, the Universe is bound together by that one thread, and I see that as a sort of unifying identity. Thus, when I feel the spiritual tug of the wind in my hair or a moment of serenity beneath a gnarled sycamore, I think it is that unity that appeals. It's my own stubborn little ball of energy drawing just a little closer to the patterns of the Universe for a moment or three. I think the Zen concepts are closest to this. Oneness is pleasure and contentment.

 

In all likelihood, the unifying force is not nearly as 'conscious' as most every religion I know would have me believe, but I suspect that there is more to it than the simple flow of electrons or the gathering of neutrons and protons. Perhaps we are most like the cells of a body - short-lived little drones who go about their business with no clue as to their purpose in an infinitey-larger body that is unaware of them as individual components.

 

Then again, ponderings like that lead me to a single question that I cannot answer... Does the universe exist simply because it does, or does it, too, serve as the drone to some larger pattern?

 

I'm way too small to know that one."

 

Philosphy. Yui-style. <_>

[Mynx]

Born and raised a Catholic. Strong believer but also a firm believer that everyone is free to choose. I am friends with Wiccans and my partner *smiles at Gryphon* is about as anti-Catholic as I am anti-romance movies (don't ask).

I believe strongly in my faith, but I focus more on the aspects of love thy neighbour and that God forgives.

I am also a frequent meditator...I'm not sure if thats good Catholic behaviour or not.

I refuse to judge others, and in turn expect to be allowed to believe my own.

I'm a strange cat...

[Guest Kunax]

who would the goddess be?

Edited July 30, 2004 by Kunax

[The Big Pointy One]

Tiamat.

 

 

 

...just kidding ;p