Virtual Real Life Meeting

[Guest Rendelle]

One day while shuffling through the mail, you discover a letter with the return address of "http://www.themightypen.net". Surprised, your eyes shoot down to your own address and you discover it to be marked with the form "yourusername c/o Your Real Name". Glancing around, you note that you are alone and then tear open the letter. It reads:

 

Dear Pen Member:

 

You are invited to a gala dinner and dance, a chance to the real life people behind the beloved Pen members. Please come prepared to be yourself. You need not give away your name - the attached name tag may bear either your real name or a pseudoreal name - but we would love to meet the real you. On the other hand, be warned that you may discover your many great friends to be only human. Please, allow them to be comfortable in their own skins among friends - This is an opportunity to know them for who they are but to judge them only by the personality by which we have always known them.

 

RSVP is imperative.

 

Thank you,

Your Hostess, Rendelle

 

PS. Do not ask how we got your address. You do not really wish to know.

 

Enclosed, you find a plane ticket, a well-drawn map, two drink tickets and a blank name tag.

 

Note: This is a virtual meeting. No real life meeting is taking place.

 

To attend, you must:

• Make sure you are Initiate or above. To protect the privacy of our members, we require that you be a member in order to participate. If you are not yet an initiate, there is plenty of time in which to apply.
• Create a new account for your real-life self, with the account name being the name you would right on the name tag.
• PM me (Rendelle) from your original account with the name of the new person in order that access rights to the courtyard can be given before the event. Do NOT post this information here since there is going to be a competition involving matching people to characters.
• Sometime mid-May, the Dinner & Dance will be invoked in a thread in the courtyard.
• Your name will appear on the guest list (see last note) and you will be eligible to make guesses (PM'd to me) regarding the identities of your fellow writers.
• As a second game, you will also be given a card (like eight of hearts) and challenged to find three other people with the same card.
• At the end, identities will be revealed (unless otherwise requested), winners announced, and bragging rights awarded as a prize. And, I hope, you will all be richer for knowing each other better.
• If for any reason you do not want us to know which persona you usually play, but still want to participate, then tell me and I will not put your name on the guest list or reveal your identity at the end. Note that this means trusting me to know (I will tell you who I am if you ask the knowledge) and risking people figuring it out through elimination, if enough participate.

All members and soon-to-be-members are encouraged to come.

[Guest Rendelle]

A few things I'd like to say:

 

Apparently there are concerns that I may not actually be anybody. Not much I can say to waylay those fears except that Hey! They've given me my own group! You, too, can be a Guest of mine! The powers that be wouldn't create me a group if they didn't know me and trust me at least a little.

 

I do have a secret contact among you, besides even my own self - and that person tells me that some people have mentioned that they will "watch with interest". That's fine. But if everyone just watches, no one will join - and no one has yet joined. Is that because no one wants to participate, or simply because no one has answered yet? I'd feel better if I knew the answer to that. Can I goad anybody into joining? It doesn't matter if people already know your RL self... all that means is that there's one easy match on the list. You can still have fun roleplaying yourself.

 

Also, be prepared to see me in mIRC. I've been told that's a good place to advertise...

[Ayshela]

mmmmmmm

having it in the initiates and up area helps ease some of the concern about turning loose personal info in a "public" forum, but .. .. aside from blood relatives or those who know me IRL through the kids, i can count on one hand with ease the people who know my real name - and not *just* because i hate it.

 

Personally, i think it's an intriguing idea, and i've been hesitantly trying to talk myself into PMing you about it, but it runs red-flags-flying into personal safety issues for me.

[Guest Rendelle]

Thank you for your comments, Ayshela. I appreciate the chance to prepare a rebuttal. I shall address it mainly to people with concerns similar to yours, since you seem to have your mind made up already, but if I can convince you otherwise then I shall consider it a great bonus.

 

"i can count on one hand with ease the people who know my real name - and not *just* because i hate it."

 

I think that with this comment you are going deeper than just the name issue, but I would like to reiterate that you don't need to use your real name. For example, Rendelle is not actually my real name, but it is my pen name for if I ever published anything, and the name means something to me as a pseudoname. It doesn't have to. Pick "Pennite" for all I care, the main idea is getting to know each other.

 

Which brings me to what you seem to be more concerned about. "Personal safety issues." Here we get into stickier issues, but I can tell you that I am personally a very paranoid person. I don't plan to ask you where you live or even what you do for a living if you aren't prepared to tell. I'm thinking a more general idea where we talk about what we look like (I'm not expecting everyone to post a picture, and really one can't get all that specific with words), what we enjoy doing, what our families, if any, are like.

 

To help give people more of an idea what this will be like, I will start the thread before closing it to participants. But I would like more people first.

 

Aside from myself and a couple of people I know I can count on to join, the total joined so far is: 2.

 

I know there is more interest than that floating around. If there are specific issues that are holding you back, please come forward like Ayshela and give me a chance to argue them or change things for you. I'm not adverse to PMs either.

[Quincunx]

The initial post was a trolling* by an Honored Guest with name not ever mentioned before (unlike I.M. Clueless, Nuncio, and Natanis to name a few)--nothing is going to undo that damage in perception. I had to reread the first post several times over to see it as a mutual Create New Workaday Persona invitation, instead of something worse. Even so, had your "secret contact" not posted in your defense later on the same day, I'd have deleted this thread on my own intuition.

 

--Tzimfemme, the naked

Disgruntled.

 

*"and really one can't get all that specific with words" is a severe trolling itself, on a board dedicated to writing.

[Guest Rendelle]

I apologize for the slowness of response, I meant to post this a while ago.

 

In the time since your post, my enthusiasm for this idea has waned greatly. I am still willing to put it on if people magically start being interested, but it doesn't look like this will happen. Still, you deserve a response, and the idea deserves to be defended.

 

The initial post was a trolling* by an Honored Guest with name not ever mentioned before (unlike I.M. Clueless, Nuncio, and Natanis to name a few)--nothing is going to undo that damage in perception.

 

I had to reread the first post several times over to see it as a mutual Create New Workaday Persona invitation, instead of something worse. Even so, had your "secret contact" not posted in your defense later on the same day, I'd have deleted this thread on my own intuition.

I'm sorry that that problem did not occur to me. You probably would have been right to delete it. But I have had a few people tell me that they are very interested, and so I do not think it would be fair to them if I gave up so quickly. I am sorry for any problems I have caused. Mostly it was just an idea to get more of us interested in a mutual writing idea that would also help us appreciate each other more.

 

*"and really one can't get all that specific with words" is a severe trolling itself, on a board dedicated to writing.

Oh dear, I've been caught red-handed there. Words are amazing in their scope, their ability to evoke an emotion or illustrate a person, setting, action, or any other thing. But in a way, I'm not going to take it back. By "all that specific" I mean, specifically, well enough described for someone to be recognized and tracked down based solely on the description. If you take a person with no special characteristics like a bent nose or a tattoo, it is a lot easier, but I'm going to stand by the assertion, knowing full well that this may get me in trouble, that a picture is worth well over a thousand words in this regard.

 

...If you can prove me wrong I will humbly bow to your much greater skill. I'm not being sarcastic or anything here, just saying that I don't have the ability to use words to this extent, and that if anyone here can, I will apologize, and wish that I had your talent with words. If not, I'm still sorry for saying it like I did.

[Vanessa]

So....what? It would be like roleplaying only with us being ourselves? Sounds like fun .

[Ayshela]

i have avoided posting to this thread again, simply because i've been living in a whirlwind lately with anxiety, anger, and frustration levels off the scale. This has the unfortunate side-effect of greatly reducing my ability to properly construct coherent, civil response. i had actually posted to this thread yesterday, thinking it was about time i did, and then thought better of it and came back and deleted it because while i had said what i had to say, i could have said it better. My apologies to those who were here in the intervening time and did see that.

 

To get to the points needing response:

 

Thank you for your comments, Ayshela. I appreciate the chance to prepare a rebuttal.

Frankly, i'm not the slightest bit interested in a rebuttal as i had, and have, no intention of arguing with you. You requested information, i provided it, transaction completed. i posted it publicly for two reasons:

1. no one else seemed willing to.

2. those with similar concerns may have found some consolation in seeing someone *else* say what they were, for their own reasons, unwilling to publicly state.

 

i could well have carried on assuming that someone else would contact you with their concerns, but that has a nasty tendency to leave people ill-informed. It occurred to me that *i* would be unable to alter my plans in a way which others would find workable if i were unaware of their concerns, and that the same may well hold true for you. Perhaps you're omniscient where i am not, but given that you asked

Is that because no one wants to participate, or simply because no one has answered yet?

i thought it better to take you at your word and give the feedback you seemed to want. Argument was, and is, no part of my plans.

 

since you seem to have your mind made up already, but if I can convince you otherwise then I shall consider it a great bonus.

Assuming that i have my mind made up *was* erroneous, to say the least. Especially considering that i had closed my post by stating that "Personally, i think it's an intriguing idea, and i've been hesitantly trying to talk myself into PMing you about it..." It is not wise to slam the door in the face of someone trying to help you, and painting such a person as unreasonable and closed-minded is not only unlikely to further your cause, but less than properly appreciated.

 

"i can count on one hand with ease the people who know my real name - and not *just* because i hate it."

 

I think that with this comment you are going deeper than just the name issue, but I would like to reiterate that you don't need to use your real name.

Clearly humour does not translate well to text - those who do know me know there is a string of running jokes about and around my given name and that while i'm not especially fond of it for reasons of my own, i accept it and the humour value of it and am as likely to run the gag myself. Totally setting aside your rude assumptions of any issues i may or may not have, the valid point remains that giving out your legal/given name is a breach of security that should not be taken lightly, and there was no indication that real names would not be required for those wanting to fully participate as you stated

Create a new account for your real-life self, with the account name being the name you would right on the name tag.

The only exception you gave for that was that if you did not want to give your name you would not be put on the guest list - which is the requirement for eligibility for the planned games. You said *nothing* about giving an "alternate" name as opposed to your given/legal name - which is the basis of the objection.

 

I don't plan to ask you where you live or even what you do for a living if you aren't prepared to tell. I'm thinking a more general idea where we talk about what we look like (I'm not expecting everyone to post a picture, and really one can't get all that specific with words), what we enjoy doing, what our families, if any, are like.

i do appreciate this clarification, and think you might have avoided a great deal of concern if some of this had been specified from the start. Getting into issues of appearance is questionable, though hobbies and such are generally fair game. Quite the contrary, though, one *can* get specific enough with words to make recognition probable, and with the skill of the writers here that would be fairly likely.

 

I know there is more interest than that floating around. If there are specific issues that are holding you back, please come forward like Ayshela and give me a chance to argue them or change things for you.

That, actually, was the entire reason i posted in the first place - because i had specific issues with the way this was being presented/managed and without willingness to make some adjustments to tighten security on it the whole plan was likely to fall through. i *will* tell you, i *have* told you, what those issues are. i *will not* argue them with you.

 

Though i will suggest that you take a bit more care in handling those who *do* tell you what their concerns are, as even giving that much information can be a breach of security for some. Being treated as unreasonable for having security concerns when it was a security issue to even present them does nothing to further your cause, and only ensures that those concerns will never be presented.

[Lady Celes Crusader]

I'm already myself most of the time in these board as well when I'm on IRC. I just don't want the whole world know my name like that. Perhaps I don't get the point of this thing but it just feel redundant in my own point of view.

[Katzaniel]

Wow. I'm really really sorry how much has been misunderstood about all this. First things first:

 

I am, or was, Rendelle.

 

Please don't hate me for that. I made a bad first impression, explained things very poorly, and then screwed up in trying to explain myself.

 

I'm sick and tired of the secrecy and the constroversy, I don't want to do this at all anymore. Vanessa had the spirit of it right - just roleplaying yourself. I kind of thought, a way to find out what people's personalities and appearances are, and fun to see whether they're different from preconceptions based on characters, and so forth.

 

Obviously I did make a very bad first impression, I never meant to insult anyone or assume anything, and I am very surprised how much I've been miscontrued, and sorry what you thought I meant to say.

 

Frankly, i'm not the slightest bit interested in a rebuttal as i had, and have, no intention of arguing with you.

I didn't mean argue. I just meant discuss. I have always looked forward to discussing things with people and coming to an agreement. I guess I said it poorly.

 

It is not wise to slam the door in the face of someone trying to help you, and painting such a person as unreasonable and closed-minded is not only unlikely to further your cause, but less than properly appreciated.

I'm sorry. I'm really sorry Ayshela. I didn't mean to do that at all, I just thought that you must have concerns beyond what I could fix. I mean, I have huge concerns regarding privacy and always have, I don't even like people to know what timezone I'm in if I can help it. Mirc has altered that since I have no choice if I want to chat with people, but I never give away personal information like my name (I thought I'd make the name point clear with "You need not give away your name - the attached name tag may bear either your real name or a pseudoreal name - but we would love to meet the real you." Rendelle isn't my real name and I didn't expect very many people to go with their real names).

 

And when I said "going deeper than just the name issue", all I meant was that you seemed worried about more than giving away your name, ie) all types of privacy issues, which I thought would be handled by three things: 1) Being in a member-only room, 2) Only needing to say as much as you want to, and 3) Not having to participate at all. Again, I'm sorry for the terrible impression you must all have had of me, I didn't mean to be rude but I suppose I was.

 

I also didn't mean that you wouldn't be on the guest list if you didn't give your real name, I meant that you didn't have to give your real name and as a totally separate thing, if in addition you didn't want to be on the guest list you didn't have to be. I guess in trying to be brief enough for people to want to read the thing, I sacrificed a lot of proper explanation.

 

I didn't want to treat you as unreasonable, Ayshela, and I'm not trying to make it seem that way now, only trying to explain myself a little. When I talked of "arguing" I just meant fleshing out problems so I could better understand what needed to be changed, and so forth.

 

In short, I'm really really sorry, I feel sick about the worry that this has caused, I hope your perceptions of me have not been permanently tarnished, and unless this post somehow causes a surge of interest (yeah right) I will not be going on with this. I didn't mean the harm that this has caused - I hope you can all forgive me.

[Joseph]

well, it interested me to say the least? and i like the idea of every not knowing who everyone else is. it couldve been a fun game, if people had realized it was just meant to be a game. and all his work creating a new account for nothing. ah well, id still be willing to participate, only recently clicked this thread. so if enough other people feel like signing up... otherwise this account will just fade away

[Ayshela]

*laughs*

*hugs Katz*

huge surge of interest? prolly not.. huge surge of understanding of what you were actually meaning in what you said? far more likely.

 

hon.. i'm *not* angry with you, i seriously doubt *anyone* hates you and i know for certain that *i* don't.. and if it would make you feel better to be forgiven you may certainly have that though i really don't see where it's necessary.

 

You have just run headlong into the major drawback to communicating here: being a text-only medium we lose *all* the other channels of information gathering.. voice tone, facial expression, posture, gestures, eye movements, variable tension levels.. all the means by which we gather what someone means by what they're saying. Without those other channels of information to fill out the verbal gaps, it takes a LOT more words to convey the same information. The character limit on messages here is very generous, so you need not worry about running out of room. When you're concerned about overrunning the attention span limits, it would probably be a good idea to do one post for the general concept and one for the nuts and bolts of how it would work.

 

i maintain that this is an intriguing concept, and properly handled could be a lot of fun.. kind of a "meeting at the coffee shop" thing.. what it would take to make it work is a bunch of people being willing to share what they would need to feel safe and comfortable being there. For me, you've filled in quite a bit of that in your further explanation. If that doesn't hold true for others, i do hope they'll speak up - privately or publicly. If it's *not* going to work i personally would like it to be because of a solid reason rather than unspoken fears.

 

*hugs* hon.. breathe.. that's a very important thing to remember to do, and easy to forget when upset. i promise, i only bite if you ask really really nicely, k? =)

[Ayshela]

Security concerns:

 

it occurs to me that a good portion of my hesitance to participate involves the necessarily public nature of this exchange. Even in a members only area, the event will be viewable by a fairly large number of people who will be able to gather personal information while giving none of their own. There may be a way to alleviate some of the concern over that issue..

 

i see that the original posting includes a group listing of "Rendelle's Guest". That in itself may be the key to properly securing the event to make it feasible.

 

My suggestion actually comes in three parts:

 

1. Make the event thread accessible only to the group.

 

2. In the post opening the event, begin with a "roll call" listing of the commonly known members' names who are a part of the group. (Listing yourself as Katzaniel, not as Rendelle, for instance). That would give those "present" for the event the opportunity to choose how much of what type of information they are comfortable sharing with full knowledge of who will have access to that information.

 

3. Leave open the option to, within ten days or so of the event closing, kill the thread. i say ten days so that those who can't be here frequently but who still wish to participate will have a reasonable chance to come back, catch up, and wrap up their participation in the event. That will also alleviate any concern over a permanent record being left, if any of the group members are uncomfortable with that.

 

With that added security i, personally, would be FAR more willing to participate. Would that adequately address the concerns of others?

[Peredhil]

My Online communication checklist, before I click "add reply":

 

1) What I mean to say.

2) What did I actually say?

3) Does anything I actually said need or *sarcasm* or some other written "nonverbal" communicator to bring (2) closer to (1)?

4) What will different people who read this "hear" when they read it?

5) What will the readers think I said? Some people can't help but put hidden meanings into simple statements, while others never look for subtle meanings behind obvious messages.

6) Do I communicate that which I wanted to communicate?

 

If yes, click "Add Reply", else revise or don't post.

 

After a while, it gets to be a Polite habit.

[Vanessa]

Doesn't that list make posting take AGES?!

[Katzaniel]

Okay.

 

*phew*

 

I feel much better... this whole thing felt like I was having a big misunderstanding with a close friend. Maybe we can still do this. Someone with mod access would have to be willing to do the things Ayshela suggested with regards to limited access and deletion, but they sound like very good ideas. At any rate, I only posted that picture because I never meant to tell who I was in this thread, so *snatches picture*.

 

Peredhil, I think that a huge part of my miscommunication was coming to you as a total stranger and acting like a trusted friend. True, I missed out on some other things I should have said, but as I had one person point out to me, if those statements had come from Katzaniel, she would have looked closer and asked harder questions, versus coming from a total stranger, these things just didn't come across the same. Still, good lessons for us all.

[Tamaranis]

First off: Ayshela, you rock.

 

I had been somewhat interested in this from the start, but some "badness" happened in the thread and I figured I was as likely to make things worse as to fix anything by commenting.

 

So I'm really relieved to see that that's all cleared up now.

 

On the issue of security, it's not that I don't worry about it, it's that I'm convinced if some one really wants to find me they will, So I'd probably be using my real name if I participate, even though a few members would immediately recognize me as a result of that.

 

What I'm more worried about is that I couldn't accurately roleplay myself. The idea of it makes me kinda nervous, actually.

[Katzaniel]

That's interesting, I'd never even thought of that concern.

 

Do you mean, you wouldn't know how to do it?

 

Well, I'm not forcing you to (no, not even you, Tamaranis, will be forced into it if you don't want ) but you may want to consider, then, the possibilities that trying it would open in terms of enhancing roleplaying skill. I would have thought that of all characters, your own actions and habits would be best known to you and the easiest predicted. But whether or not this is true, by doing yourself you can consider how you roleplay and compare the differences between a fictional character and yourself, and perhaps learn ways that you can improve either from the other. By understanding your own reluctance and overcoming it, by looking at yourself in the same way you see any of your characters, perhaps you can increase the depth of those characters.

 

Not that you need help roleplaying. Or necessarily have any desire to change anything. Just a thought. If not... well... do what you want.

 

On another note... since this is temporarily open again pending any interest... I've had 3 officially sign up, and there's a little nonofficial interest around...

• Does anyone want to comment on the feasibility of Ayshela's suggestions?
• Does anyone want to bring up any further concerns?
• Does anyone have any questions?

[Merelas]

Hmm...

 

I like the idea... it's just the execution I'm worried about.

 

However, I'm not sure if I would participate due to everything that's on my plate. Maybe... there's at least a chance. It definitely does sound very intriguing and I would be willing to give it a shot at least.

 

And by the way, I had no idea that you were Rendelle, Katz. Blew my mind

 

In summary, because I said a lot without saying anything at all: I will play, but don't expect a post every hour.

 

I hope this goes through development well.

[Ayshela]

"doesn't that list make posting take ages?"

actually, no, not really. i haven't found it takes very long at all to mentally walk around the post and look it over from several different perspectives. OTOH, it can take AGES to undo the damage done by neglecting to do so, and in some cases it's impossible. sad.

 

 

How to "roleplay" yourself.. that's actually an intriguing question, and not one i'd have the faintest shred of a notion how to answer despite the fact that i do it on a daily basis. *blinkblink* hmmmmmmm..

 

If the suggested security meets with approval, and will be in place, go ahead and sign me up, hon.

[Joseph]

so lets get started already people. make yurself a new account already and lets begin. I have this account just sitting here waiting to be used. I'm anxious. oh and Katz, if you don't want to be left out since you revealed yurself as rendelle. you can always create another one and just sign up as a regular player

[Merelas]

Erm... is it possible for us to get the instructions again?

[Alaeha]

Just popping in to say I think this one would be a lot of fun, if we can get security sufficient to meet peoples' needs.

 

For myself, I'll be setting up my "spare" account once I know that the event will take place.

[Katzaniel]

Thank you, Alaeha.

 

If anyone else feels the same way, I urge you to post here or PM me, since I'm judging whether or not to run it based on whether we have enough people for it to work. I'm not sure how many is "enough", but I think we're nearing it. (That and whether anyone steps up to agree to help with the stuff I can't do, namely making the thread visible only to participants and being ready to delete the thread a little ways into it if anyone is getting uncomfortable).

 

Thank you Joseph, as well. I think I shall do that.

 

Rules again. Okay... and trying to be more clear this time.

 

 

1. Anyone who is interested in participating will create a new account and PM me from their original account so that I can make sure they are really a member.

2. Once we have a list of the participants, I will send the new account names to someone with the power to make them my Guests, so that they can see the thread. (I already have a volunteer for this part).

3. Inside the thread, I will post a list of the original names so that everyone knows who is involved. I will also post a list (in a different order ) of the new names, for easy reference when "voting".

4. By "voting", I mean sending me a PM along the lines of, "I think Ryan is really Merelas, Eleanor is Ayshela and..." (Disclaimer: I made up these names ). You do not have to send me any of this, it is just for the fun of seeing who can guess the most people. You can also send multiple PMs, or change your vote at any point. As I will be using a spreadsheet to keep track of it, you don't need to worry about it being too confusing for me. If you give me permission to post your guesses, I think it would also be fun to post the whole table of who was whom versus who thought who was whom (if that makes sense to you).

5. I may also play the little party game where everyone is given a card (like from a deck of cards) and you're supposed to find the person with the same card as your own. This would also be an optional part of it all.

6. We all roleplay ourselves at the dinner and dance. This would include posting a general description of yourself and acting much like you yourself would do if we were doing this in real life. You may ask each other questions, but no one is required to answer anything. I hope there will be enough for us to "do"... I'm going to include a buffet, a bar, a band (and the letter of the day is "B"!), a dance floor, lots of tables... and if anyone has any other suggestions, I will be glad to add more to it.

7. Once all the votes are in, or it seems to have wound down, I will end it, posting the winners for matching personalities and possibly the card game too. And did we say that we wanted it deleted afterward? If only our new personalities have access to it anyway, I guess it won't matter much if it's deleted, so we may as well decide right now that after it's over, and everyone involved has seen the end of it, the thread gets deleted. If anyone wants to salvage bits of their own roleplaying or descriptions, we could start a suitable thread for that in the Courtyard before deleting it.

 

All clear?

[Gwaihir]

I'll join in if this happens.