reverie

I haven't read that much of Emily D. either except what school makes you read, but from what I've seen of her regarding dashes, she seemed to pair them with common and semi-colons in order to break up clauses and such. I've seen one or two other (older type) poets do it too, and I once tried doing that in a poem and was slammed for over punctuating. Well remember grammar and punctuation didn't get streamlined in English (at least in America) until the last century or so I think. Anyway, I have no problem with what your trying to suggest, just with the method of using a dash, that's why I suggested alternatives and then I kind went off on a tangent with that fiction comparison. Sorry, I tend to do that. Left-hander's disease. Hmm, he might be able to get away with a hypen between "warm" and "canon." Ya know read it like a compound word, but that's a pretty big stretch. No that wouldn't do either, since you want a pause. Wait a minute? Do you want an actual pause in the reading or do you just want the words to stand out in the reader's mind. Because if you just want a pause then heck man, you can just use an ellipses. Unorthodox, yes. Chat room lingo, you betcha. But it would get the same effect, and though it is still technically wrong, the ellipses is more corrupted than the dash. Personally, I'd just use a line break if I felt it needed to be highlighted any further, which I'm not so sure it does. rev...

Ah freaking Dream. Yeah he was arrogant. Well I'm glad he finally got taken down. We came pretty close. OMG, in the tourney both me and my partner (the drunk one) got a Fury of God (basically every turn you take kills off like 10% of you until you die) for two days by the developers because they thought we were mult-mages (cheaters). I had to give Birdman the tourney forums password to A. shut up all the other teams saying we deserved it and B. to prove we weren't cheating. That kind of freaked a lot of people out. And we still took second. I think they hated us for that. I remember the covenant. I did a trial membership in the White Tower for a time. What was it call back then the alliance of light? I vaguely remember AoA. Some many guilds, so many resets. good memories, rev...

was that a hint? I'll get back to it some day Mar, I'm slammed right now. End of semester is looming. rev...

I disagree. Dashes separated clauses or are the expansions of an idea. You are suggesting that Preprise use a dash to split an adjective from the noun it modifies. True, grammar is more flexible in poetry, but I think this borders on incorrect usage. Would you use a common, colon, or semi-colon to separate a modifier from it's noun or verb? Not really. You could use a common to separate two modifiers like in the "gray, placid sea," but you could do just as well without it. Anyway rules can always be bent but I don't think emphasizing a pun qualifies this. It's too jarring of a departure of the norm, when a line break would serve just as well to break up the noun / modifier pair. Why? because you don't break up a pair this way unless you want to add more weight to one. Same way you would with an inversion. Italics could serve just as well, but italics can confuse just as much as they are meant to stand out, so you have to be careful with them. I tend to over use them myself. Hell you could even play with capitalization if you like. Now I'm not saying you can't invent your own rules or just play with grammar in general, but if you choose to do that then you have to be consistent so as to establish your system as the new norm in your poem or as a parody of the norm. It works just like magical realism in fiction. If you create a new world with it's own rule of nature and magic then you owe it to your reader to establish what is normal in your fantasy world. This is assuming you want to be inclusive as a writer. If you want to be inaccessible then you still own your reader something. Even T.S. Elliot gave us foot notes, e.e. cummings created sort of visual puzzles, which I only rarely get, and symbolism fiends draw from well established legends and myths. Otherwise you're just writing a journal entry for an audience of one.

Sorry am going to have to Geek out for a few minutes. Original nick was revery, but I killed him off after a month or so and created: revery_tdc (the dream continues) that became my main alias. On different resets I went by: castle, and once traded accounts with a willar for few months. And during a six month long inter-guild tourney hosted by Dream of the Iron Fist Protectorat, I went by clumsy_smurf, sm_quest. Interestingly enough my guild took second place but got band for life due to our overly aggressive tactics. My friend would play drunk -- god could he play drunk -- only problem was he attacked EVERYONE when he was drunk. Made for quite a bit of damage control in the morning. I wouldn't have fit in with the actual pen rp guild at the time. I was still caught up in the absurdity of trying to gain rank on the guild level...that and killing arm casters and devil mages. I knew Joat though. He saved me in that tourney with a few well cast serenities. We were only vaguely aware of each other at time, but he helped me out anyway. BH people stick together! Which worked out much better for him I hear. I did introduce him to his girl, sephria, ya know. Oh memories. Did they ever get married? I forget. It was fair trade though because he introduced me to the pen. National Pen meet, then the world!

Yeah, I was one of those insane poster junkies over in the Blitz II Banquet Hall (not room, I forgot, thanks) engaging in cold war guild propaganda and the occasion ditty. I used to refer to the early pennite colony on that much more stable board as the "storytellers." Actually, I first started out in Blitz I BH about half a year earlier, but things didn't work out, so I left. Funny thing was, I still remember Gryfalcon or at least someone with the same name was posting well before I ever came onto the scene. He's older than dirt. He's practically a fossil. Never was with Server I / II crowd that much. Didn't have the patience, it took too long to amass turns and my crowd was a bunch of alcoholic mechanics /signal soldiers paired with an equally rowdy group of swedes with the occasional moonlighting bar tender / law student **Waves to Kab and Syth, wherever you are**. Suffice to say they never got the whole poetry thing, but they appreciated me for my diplomacy skills. What? I can be diplomatic. Some of the people I used to play with way way back defected over into the Legion of Rose? and got addicted to Ever Quest, and we kind of lost track of each other. Yeah get together could be fun. Do the west coast one. After I get in grad school, I might try to set up an east coast / mid west one depending on where I end up. rev...

You have good tone control, but I don't see to what end. Seems just a touch too inaccessible and one-sided. Meaning you get it because you wrote it, but I don't. Your clout and the unbearable weight of heavy wind sucking worn old trails and inroads (Can't see it too well. The Image you are trying to create appears convoluted to me. Maybe "sucking" is a poor choice. do you mean that the wind is clearing these paths, making them, or just blowing through them as yet another traveler would while treading over their well traveled metaphorical mental paths.) or imagined selflessness clutching the noose of a soft illusion (abstraction after abstraction -- aye the risk of writing in 2nd person -- better title might help) Feed from the threat, suckle its nipple nuzzle the mouth of the warm canon (Again better title might help some, maybe, but why so strong an indictment? What's motivating your speaker? Qualify his anger / venom ) When new roots lift an atrophied gate seeping through the torn wreckage (cliche, and I thought we were going for stroll? Do roots seep? Water seeps into them and the roots have just lifting something, seeping is more of a flowing verb) the freight train remembers a haunting ration of fear (nice phrase, but you're attached it to a personified train. Why so much emphasis on our train friend. He doesn't seem to me to be the one your speaker is directing his/her indictment towards.) Derailed at the fleeting moment of truth freed from the threat that cleanses the breech It releases the shores of deep dreams (what's the antecedent for "it." Maybe that should be your title)

As a kid, I used to dream of living on Pern in Anne McCaffrey's "Dragon Rider Saga" or even better in a future earth and other worlds in her "Pegasus / Rowan" chronicle. David Eddings also had a say in those dreams as well to a lesser degree. Why? Had a bad childhood. Oh it wasn't terrible, and my god it could have been much much worse, but for a time I needed an escape and the local library kind of kept me going for a few years. This is way before I had access to the internet (like back in the Prodigy days) or even figured out that I could write period. Now it would be nice if Piers Anthony's Incarnations of Immortality and Neil Gaiman's "Endless" from the Sandman could come to be at the same time. Think of the possibilities.

Pen goes in cycles Salinye. I actually thought we were in a bit of an upswing myself after the Fall lull (Summer Vacation Ending). Poetry postings have been pretty consistent in the BH all and all. We've even had some spirited debate over feedback recently. Can't speak firmly for RP sections though. The Assembly room appears like it's being used to me, but I don't linger there much. You notice it after awhile. Every few months someone posts something like OMG the pen's changed! or dying! Yet we're still here. Actually people pointing out the trend--like I just did--has been posted multiple times as well, though those comments usually have a way of ending up in the Athenaeum section of the pen. God only knows how the discussion of the lull cycle has worked itself out in the Tower, if at all. There is something else to consider, but I'm not going to be the one to open up that can of worms this time. Oh no, not this dreamlost boy, no way. Still, nothing in life is ever truly static Salinye. You can't leave a place for...what's it been? Two? Three Years? and expect everything to be as it was, ya know. My God how long have I been here??!! Let's see...started posting in earnest when I was in Korea, which was around 2001-ish, so that would make it like what: Six Years? Seven, if you count my just being aware of Pen's migration away from the game Archmage. Now if you look at the truly primordial Pennites of The Mighty Pen's past say back when people first stated congregating in the pre-UBB Blitz One Server Banquet Room you might have some people getting pretty well close to 9 or 10 years now. I guess that would put me somewhere near the Cambrian Explosion in the time line of the Pen. Wow. Jeez we're old. We should plan a party or something. We're ancient by internet standards. take care, rev...

Franny and Zoey is cool. I like Franny's story better than Zoey's. Salinger needs to get off that mountain or where ever he's currently hiding now and finish the Glass Family Saga. Currently reading "Stumbling on Happiness" by Psychologist Daniel Gilbert. Informative psycho-babble that can summed up as this: For the most part we as a species have no clue what really makes us happy. In what must have been an attempt to include the lay reader Gilbert style goes for funny ha ha and ironic wit. He misses pretty hard, but comedy is not his specialty. Pretty much his style and tone is too cute by half. "Precious" is how my Prof describes it. Still it's an easy read considering all the hard data he crammed into it.

Welcome Back.

super cool. Congrats.

Just did some minor tweaking and rearranging. Just to show you possibilities. You paint nice scenes. You know how and where you want to move to, but you're still dancing around it little. Although they are as sticky as frozen gummy bears Sitting here, my fingers slip on the keys. How pathetic, these school keyboards. The mouse takes half a minute to travel across the screen-- pathetic mice--and the screen flickers in and out of focus these pathetic school computers. And here I sit, my head nodding, attempting a little ditty of some strange sort, not really making any sense, Not really trying. I have a history test today, I wonder what it's on, something to do with the War of 1812, which I believe took place in 1812 or so. Maybe. So I think I'll go find a place to sleep, If I don't get dragged away to class first to take that history test on the War of not- really-1812, or so.

I agree that ellipses solely as agents of "pausing" should be avoided at all cost. "If, as a poet, Sora was trying to establish an incomplete thought then I feel the elipses are a good way to go. " Possibly, but does not each "key word" (listen, watch, feel) flow directly into each succeeding line respectively, thus completing the thought? Even if the succession of images is meant to go on and on, the direct connection btw the "key word" and the rest of the stanza has already been linked up to the next phrase sort of speak. Don't think dashes (em or en) / double hyphens would work either. They're usually used to enclose like parenthesis. A colon might if you reworked each supporting line, but that's a little over kill I think. A simple comma might do the trick. However, I don't think (and this rare for me) that much punctuation is really needed in this poem. Ditto on the ending ellipses. Hmm, what we need here is real grammar aficionado. Hey someone go wake up Quincunx. rev...

eh, I get the whole traditional native american poetry inspiration thing. I studied lots and lots of the stuff last semester. Sadly it doesn't always translate well to the page. Most poets of nations conquered by an outside language have the same dilemma. Particularly when the indigenous incarnations of poetry were already well established. Question like: How far do you go to match the conventions of the conquerors tongue vs. the traditional one that continues to fade from collective memory. Irish and Scottish poets shoulder the same burden. Ellipses aren't needed to get the pause effects you're looking for though. Simply double spacing works too. One possibility: Listen, Watch, Feel Listen to the song of the wind to the cry of the eagle to the voice of the trees Watch the path of the sun the flight of the hawk the dance of the sea Feel the movement of the earth the heat of the flame the love of others. Check out Joy Harjo: http://www.vcu.edu/engweb/webtexts/Harjo/ -rev...

Awesome! I'd say it's about time but jeez you guys sure grow up fast. I look forward to the wedding pictures. yours, rev...

for some reason reminded me of this Beatle's song: http://www.stevesbeatles.com/songs/im_look...through_you.asp not sure why...

Forgive me for being rude. I'm going through some issues at the moment. it's unfair of me to take them out on anyone here. all the best, revery the dreamlost "My food is problematic." ~River Tam the dream continues...

other than school texts: When I find the time I enjoy thumbing through Bill Bryson's A Short History of Nearly Everything And when I can bring myself to bear it I'm struggling to get through John Kennedy Toole's A Confederacy of Dunces. Only about 70 pages left, but it's a hard 70 pages. Nothing difficult about the writing style per se, it's just a freaking weird story. Am also likewise struggling with The Collected Poems of Wallace Stevens. He's a poet of ideas, which is nice way of saying abstractions. Nice to know it can be done and done well, just not by me. rev...

hmm, don't think you're ready to hear it. 'least not from me. let's give it a few years, and I'll get back to you.

my advice read more.

ah... that that too probably. sure why not.

I think he meant "bump" up. i.e. refresh an old thread concerning the volunteer issue that has gotten buried under waves of other posts, then make it permanently visible with the sticky tag function that some forum operators have access too, or something like that

it's because we're old. Lot's of legacy components from previous incarnations (I find it endearing really) and lots and lots of compromises along the way. We do have a cross-genre Writer's workshop proper (not the one in poetry guild). That's where I typically post my work. I use it mostly as an archive, place to experiment, and for general organization. Anyway it's located in the Passageway forum, but you probably can't see that forum since you're still a guest. It's not that big of a deal really. Only a few of us use it on a consistent basis. If you really and truly want OMG-in-your-face feedback, best way to go about getting that is PM a specific request to someone that you think could give it to you. That should hold true regardless of which forum you post in. A fair amount of poetry gets posted in the BH daily, so poets especially the new ones or the ones that rarely post tend to get overlooked. In case you were wondering, the reason I did such a thorough critic on your poem is that someone requested I do so on your behalf. cheers, rev...

I pause to clear my mind of thoughts Yep that would clarify it's your main persona speaking. However, doing that would also create another problem. If your main persona is self aware of his/her own thoughts and not just describing the actions/life of the beauty, then you create a dichotomy between the two. In other words, a relationship now exists between the speaker and beauty, but the details of that relationship is absent from both the proceeding and concluding lines of the poem. Depending on how you choose to approach it either could be sufficient. To steal a phrase from fiction: your characters are flat and undeveloped. "I agree with everything except your comments regarding the subtle strength. I think it's quite clear how a flower can have subtle strength." Yes, I agree flowers can have strength, but as written "the beauty" is not a flower. If she is "wilder than flowers," then she (again as currently written) cannot be a flower herself figuratively or literally. She is something more than that. So tying her strength to the strength exhibited by flowers (something she has been contrasted with) doesn't hold up logically. In this case you have neither shown nor told us enough about her to drawn this strong association with flowers. If you have said "wilder than 'other' flowers," which just sounds horrible like that. Then okay, she's a flower too (whether figurative or literal), but the meaning is still obscure. How is the strength subtle? How is it revealed. Some ideas spring to mind by examining your title, but we're in the second stanza by now and your title alone cannot carry this poetic weight for you. all the best, rev...