reverie

Very cool to read out loud. Ya know you could actually get away with ending the poem in the 6th stanza. Personally, I'd drop the "I was wrong" line if you decided to do that. Hmm, but if you end up keeping the second part of the poem, then I'd clarify the "you" person some. The identity of the bottle and the person your speaker is addressing gets confusing there. rev...

"Style is always in service to content" ~Alan Shapiro "Meter is necessary, but insufficient condition for rhythm." ~Alan Shapiro

Personally, I think individual descriptions should determine the "give" factor not a specific set of ratings. Why? Because it's hard to hold yourself to a set standard of feedback when the art that you're reviewing is so diverse. That's not to say a numeric guildline of some sort can't be devised, but I'm not sure if I'd ever be comfortable using it. Sometimes poems are just over my head when it comes to analysing their technical aspects, yet even a simple one line metaphor can throw me too. What I can give to one writer is not necessarily what I can offer to another. Hmm, I think I need to revise my own profile after writing this. rev...

argh, wish I had saw this before I posted my reply in your other post. oh, I'll have another go at it tomorrow maybe... rev...

Hmm, if this is brain-storming for you, then you definitely got something going there. *cracks knuckles* Let's see what's going on here. ***actually think you can lose a common or two, since your lilt of your lines sort of implies the pauses. My ally, my best friend, Closeness of relationship is revealed soon enough My angel, 'till til the end. Either 'til or til is valid in my dialet, but maybe yours differs from mine. My strength, my rock, My secrets, he keeps under lock. My suggestion spins your meaning some, but both work. He makes me laugh, and smile, (oh, this is place where repetition would help). He make me smile To help me, he'd run a mile. *Considers line a moment* Consider this variation, maybe you could work it in somewhere: He'd run a mile to make me smile or similar construction He keeps me safe, and guardsme, This is what allows me, to be free. He is my protector and my guard, He is my saviour and my wild card. Hmm consider this variation or similar to break up the repitition some: His is my protector and my guard My wild card saviour etc. (something that rhymes with 'guard' but doesn't necessarily have too He is my sanity and my mind, He is my thoughts and my find. I want to be more than a friend, Though I do not wish to offend. Hmm try this: I do not wish to offend Though I want to be more than a friend. more sly that way My boy-friend, I do not want to hurt, hints that you do not current have a "boyfriend" (or maybe italics or quote would work too?), but a close friend that happens to be a boy that your speaker would want to be more. However, if your speaker actually has a "boyfriend" separate from the best friend, then, um that complicates things, in life as well as your poem, since you do not ever hint of this possibility earlier I just want to seek comfort. I do not know if my feelings are mutual, ...could try: I don't know if he feels the same '...' "my pain or knows of my pain" or "Nor if he knows of my pain" and so on. I do not want them to become fatal. I do not know if these feelings are strong, I do not know if they are completely wrong. I'm not sure if these are true, As they are pretty new. I don't know what to say, I'm not sure if I want them to go away. try rephrase/reinvent several possibilities exist here's one: What I feel for you This/so or (S)sudden and new ...and that's you all get Will I love him, Will it make our friendship grim? Will we break up, Will we hook up? ditto: Will the (my/our or nil) heart invite him/us in I don't know what to do, Do I have the courage to be true? Maybe i should wait it out, But I don't want to be left without. !!!, try, try, try not to do. Rhyme too close far too close!!! So confused right now, So I do not know what to allow. So messed up at this time, So wish I didn't feel this is a crime. Hmm, tricky...try this: Bemused, confused! What to allow! So messed up etc This decision could be easy, I don't want anyone to get angry. I just want to resolve this issue, Just wish i had a clue. ditto: I got nothing. Maybe consider dropping after another draft or two. New endings often present themselves with additional drafts Good start, keep it up rev...

Oh cool you're still alive. Neat.

Novel: Read for a class Remembering Babylon David Malouf Curious tale of a man living in two worlds circa the mid-1800's in Australia. Basically Malouf fictionalizes a story based on a true event where a white man walked out of the Australia Outback with the look and mannerism of an aboriginal, having lost almost all of his ability to speak English. Apparently the man, Gemmy, was thrown overboard as a boy of thirteen off the coast of Australia and was subsequently rescued by Aborigines. Apart from the man's first name and the some words spoken on his reintroduction to colonial life, the rest of the story is a complete fabrication. Malouf details the fear that Gemmy's presence evokes for the pioneer settlement he's falling into and the misunderstanding that arise from all sides. Malouf's narrative style takes some getting used to. He's switches from different characters' points of view and their back-stories in rapid succession. His jumps in time in order to fill the reader in on events from the previous chapter in the form of another characters reflection is disconcerting. Actually the whole novel is almost entirely made up of the individual internal reflections of it's many characters. This actually reminds me of the narrative style (or point of view?) Leo Tolstoy used style in War and Peace. This is probably an unfair comparison, since Malouf story is barely 200 pages, but it looks like Tolstoy or someone similar had a heavy influence on his writing style. No character is too insignificant it seems to go into their inner life and their motivations for settling or thriving in Australian, and since I'm supposed to read this for a Comparative history class, I can see why my Professor choose it.

I like Q's compilation of ideas concerning the critic corner: The whole +4 feedback only in C.C. forum separate from the originating thread. However, we could also take a page from Cyril and post a post in the originating thread pointing out the more elaborate feedback in Critics Corner, or maybe not? The author would still have no obligation to read the link to the Critics Corner, put it makes a nice pointer for anyone else interested in the higher level feedback. And of course the Author could object to this. Not sure of the best way to handle that, then. Enforcement, particularly for new members could be an issue too. Likewise, I often hold back in my feedback, but in the past if an author's profile F.B. lvl didn't say stop, I tend to go all out when something catches my eye. Hmm, actually after I get burned by an author for posting constructive feedback, I make a mental note of never to waste my time on them again, well other than a cursory "way-to-go" or "good job". rev...

Happy B-day Tav, you rock!!! rev...

FYI: I workshopped the heck out this poem last spring and it was reborn as Rank a.k.a Assignment 17 in the Writer's Workshop.

I'd probably be a consistent 5 with the exception of my improvised works which are just brain storming exercises. Also, a 5 because I have tendency to revisit (sometimes spanning years) almost everything I write no matter how irrelevant it is. I doubt I'd ever be a 6 though, since I welcome all levels of feedback. cool list. works for me. oh just out of curiosity Katz, who are you quoting? Yourself? rev...

*As far as reordering the forums goes. I'm neutral on the topic so long as the writer's workshop remains intact. Where it exists in the overall forum layout of the pen as a whole doesn't concern me as much though. I like using the Piazza's as a nice organization tool too, but if it were cut, I'd just move my tables elsewhere. *The RP stuff rarely applies to me, so I've neutral on that topic as well. * I like Q's idea of advertising the kind of Feedback she gives. I've taking to doing something in similar in putting a disclaimer in my feedback profile. Hmm, but I think I'll modify it now for what specifically I can offer someone that's shopping around for a specific kind of feedback. neat.

Confederate States of American Brilliant. Simply Brilliant. A mockumentary of what life could be like in an alternate history with France and Britain sided with the Confederacy of the American South, causing the South to win the American Civil War. In one example the director uses the actual plans of C.S.A for future expansion into South American to document the CSA rise as Empire on the world stage. Several other aspect of the alternate histories are elaborated on. Some seem more far fetched then others, like the cold war with Canada. But I think it's as accurate as you can get with guess work. rev...

Not so much online. I originally came into contact with style after meeting the poet Kim Addonizio at a reading. She recommended her book (of course) for novice poets interested in a simple approach to writing in form. The Poet's Companion Kim Addonizio and Dorianne Laux I like it, and it's a decent enough book, but I wanted more detail from it. Addonizio intentionally left the book bare though because she didn't want to intimidate beginners. It's has few example in it. I've seen other stuff on the web, but I guess the style is so old a lot of it was written in archaic English or some other dialect and I didn't really get it. Here's an example of me imitating skeltonic verse in an acrostic. It's not really true skeltonic though, because the lines weren't mainly improvised, each line was contrived to fit the first letter of my acrostic. So this is a slowed down more methodical (but complicated) way I came up with of doing something with skelly's verse. From Norman Rockwell’s: The Discovery Hmm, actually if you want to get down to it, the Rockwell poem is really a combination of three Styles: Skeltonic, acrostic, and Ars Poetica. "Ars Poetica" is basically writing a poem about a piece of art and or picture. Still, I think the intersection of these three styles really amounts to a train wreck of creative over-reaching. But, hey I was experimenting.

Tanuchan: No problem with just wanting to share and not wanting to receive any technical analysis of your work. That's why I think the feedback level were instituted. If memory serves, some ppl complained a lot about not getting critical feedback while others complained that that was not what they wanted at all. So like Patrick was saying it's very important to set your feedback level appropriately and honestly. However, it's seems very odd to me that someone would not want to improve. I don't think the thought had ever occurred to me before. Hmm, that's calls for an interesting balance in posts and replies somewhere between wanting attention yet not wanting scrutiny. Thanks for the perspective. rev...

Tam: I find that the best thing to do is the just jump in and offer any feedback that strikes once you've read a work. Then go back and edit for clarity and things that may have been worded a little too harsh. But, I get what you mean on not knowing what advice to give. Not too long ago, I was involved in poetry workshops with people so far advanced beyond my current level of development that I could barely understand them. At one point, I was like 'ya know what, I'm just going to shut up and learn from these guys.' Yet, even those that I felt so overwhelmed by had their own deficiencies and over time I was able to see them more clearly and not be as intimidated. It's slow going. Developing a critical eye takes time, and no matter how well you express yourself, you will always run the chance of being way off the mark. Still even incoherent rambling can still have some worth for the author. Because if nothing else emotions will get conveyed. Now as far as people getting angry or upset when offered critical feedback (moderated or otherwise), well I've concluded that it's just inevitable. When, I let my work exist outside of the safe confines of the pen, and let my peers at University critique them, I learned just how upsetting other people's unbiased, and razor sharp thoughts (or what I thought they thought) could be. Here's an example of me coming terms with what one of my classes thought of my poem: Red and Blue I wrote those comments only after I had gained some measure of control over intense feelings of anger over not beingunderstood. Also of my University collection there was a fair amount of angry frustrated soul-searching involved that I choose not to include in my Writer's Workshop posts. Believe me, I was upset and ready to bust heads by end of my first class. But eventually I learned that it's not me they were attacking, just what they perceived as errors in my work. And finally it dawned on me that even if they were off the mark, something made them say what they said, and I should at least consider investigating what that 'something' was. And I've become a better writer for learning to judge my feedback that way. Still not everyone is ready for critical feedback even positive ones. In my nonfiction-memoir-writing-class this summer we had a girl break down in tears on the first day. We were assigned to free-write on a topic for thirty minutes, then share it with the rest of the class; the class would then comment. This was just a dry run, a test, but the girl totally freaked. No one even said anything remotely negative (she was actually pretty good), but that's not what she heard. She ran out of the class and never came back. Towards the end of that class her friend came in and reprimanded us for being "so mean to her" and "accusing her of plagiarism" neither of which had occurred. Later, we emailed her notes of encouragement, but she never replied. See, she just wasn't ready to hear it, any of it. food for thought, rev...

oh no problem. I'm just glad you didn't bite my head off. remember i'm still learning myself as Q can attest to, since she's gone behind and corrected me on more than one occassion rev...

One thing I've always liked about the pen is it's versatile. *If you're an independent creative type like me, you have plenty of forums to express yourself in. And you can decide you what kind of feedback you want (if any). *If you're feeling more social beyond Pm's and emails, then rp's, irc, general discussions, and various other activities exist for you take part in. You can even create your own. But keep in mind that just like your independent creations, group activities require just as much effort on your part, if not more, to make them work. The generation of interest alone can be exhausting. *If you want to rant or vent about life, the pen has places for that. Just like any institution the pen can never hope to accommodate the tastes of every single person out there, but as is we cast a decently large net for those with the interest enough to be caught up in that sort thing. rev...

Some suggestions with explanations. Feel free to disregard if not to your liking. Also, do not feel obligated to defend your work for this is not a harsh attack, merely friendly observations I took note of while reading your poem. Meter's reminisces of ballad style and the stanza's set up definitely is, yet even though you are using consistent straight rhyming quatrains, the meter is kind of erratic. Which that itself can have it's own charm, but remember that anything written in free verse (even quatrains) can also adhere to any consistent rules of the poet's own choosing. So there's nothing stopping you from making the meter more consistent, then having it deviate from it for effect. Which a really good place to do it would be in the last stanza, when the poem gets more irrelevant and loose anyway. I'll elaborate on that further when I get down to that stanza. Of course you can always just say the heck with meter, and just write it like you normally would say it, even with the rhymes. 7 Sun shone on that dreary place, (How 'bout "Sun Shone on that <insert vivid, yet concise description of scene here," possibly describe that tower that comes later). 6 Of hallowed marble halls, (More detail.) 7 Rain would have been more fitting, 6 If Weather heard woe's calls. ( phrasing and word choice is a touch archaic, considering the more loose and modern language found towards the middle and end) 7 This A tower was his alter, (What Tower? "This" implies that you are referring to something that was described before. You might have meant for your first stanza to accomplish this, but it's not apparent as is... 6 His heart, his mind, his home, (need intricate detail on the tower. Let the tower speak for it's master). 8 But all the words he said inside, (what was said or pondered? / could be either specific or general about problem or questions your persona needed to voice) 6 Rang with an echoed tone. 7 He chose this isolation, (from what? or maybe just drop "this." Heck with the meter.) 6 Far from the maddened crowd, (rephrase maybe? "maddened crowd" sounds to much like "maddening crowd," which is really over-used line now-a-days.) 8 For Few of them did speak spoke to him, (who are them? / what did he say or try to say) 6 And those who did were loud. ***first meter shift*** 7 He did not have the sheckles, (good word, but who is the person you keep referring too?) 6 Nor charm to woo a queen, 6 And when he fell in love, 7 For a time his heart would beam. (rephrase maybe?) 7 Yet while each love was diff'rent, (this line troubles me. Hmm. Why not try: Yet while each love/heart, loves diff'rent OR [Hmm, let's have some fun.] Yet while each love, loves diff'rent / He drank only bitter wine / His smothered smoke of passion spoke / Of futures much unkind ) <-- Okay I was just being silly there. 6 His heart would rule his mind, 7 With his passion unreturned, 6 He thought them most unkind. ***meter gets erratic after this*** 8 Perhaps he was a mammy's boy, 6 Perhaps he was a pig! 7 Perhaps he was plain stupid, 8 Perhaps he should've learned to/the jig. 7 Of course he was not perfect, (who is this guy?) 8 In truth, sometimes he was an ass, 8 But who could say with honesty 8 They are; without appearing crass? (wordy and slightly confusing that you are referring back to your persona and not the conclusions of other people.) 8 So he went away and hid himself, 7 For years in marbled halls, 8 And taught himself of many things, 6 And built himself some walls. 8 The inside and the outside world 6 Are built upon strict rules, 7 And thus he had to find himself 6 To use these rules as tools. ( a touch vague, why not go into the specifics like: he learned a bit of geometry to sympathise with rules // you get the picture) 8 To counteract his active heart, 8 He took up the logic school, (better, but take it a step further and show us where he was showed up / found wanting) 8 But smarter people, more astute, 6 Still played him for a fool! 7 He felt much shame in failure, 6 It hurt his manly pride, 8 Yet if this was the price he'd pay, 6 He'd put such shame aside. (So he's a stoic to the outside world? Tell us more.) 6 For if this man's a fool, 7 To live by his heart and mind, (might a conflict set up here: by heart first, then his mind... or something like that) 6 Then this life can screw him, (okay, this line can be made funny, and if your wanted to go for a consistent meter you could use this line to break from it for added comic relief. like say: Then this life can just go screw itself) 7 Coz he'll leave it all behind.

happy, happy. rev...

hey. Story's not my forte, but I'll take a stab at it. First of all your draft is very clean, in that I mean free from annoying grammatical/spelling error. Kudos. The first thing that struck me was your first line: Tell them... Maybe drop the ellipses, and initializes the words, since it appears to be remembered speech and therefore a thought in your speakers head. If you meant it to be actually happening at the moment, then I'd put it in quotes, but it looks like a memory, and I'd keep it in italics unless it was a full blown flashback where the setting and tone of your current scene would have changed. I like your background. You've put your character in a nice suspenseful box that she has to fight her way out of... I've heard that's a good way to start. That's actually the preferred method of Stephen King. Hmm, but I think you need a literary/plot device of some sort in order to as Sweet said spread your back ground out. Maybe have your speaker recall telling her story to another character, or start with a full-on flashback or event in the past as an introduction scene, then periodically have your character lapses back into the flash back, but take the scene in the past just a bit further. There's a lot of ways to this, that I've actually never attempted it myself in prose. I've tried it poetry though, and dang is it ever hard to pull off. Dialogues really clean too. Looks like your basic writer's tool box is fairly well honed. That's a great hurtle to have already jumped over. Hmm, so I'd experiment more with different points of view, tone, and character development, theme etc. In other words have fun with it. take care, revery the dreamlost "1, 2, 3, once again go..." ~a. mann the dream continues...

Degorram: Try jumping into some popular RP threads, if your in to that sort of thing. If not, the maybe the IRC channel. Anyone got a quick link to some info on that? I hear there's a carnival (assortment of contests and games) still here about. Maybe one of the guild leaders could introduce you to it. Also I subscribe to the "letter writing" theory of feedback. If you want letters, well you have to write letters or as some anonymous sage before me put it, "if you want a friend, be a friend." rev...

Sweet: I'm sure I've misinterepted you equally as often if not more. You have my apologies as well. *nods to Akallabeth Reasons I come to the Pen: -First and foremost Joat invited me. Unfortunately, I didn't take him up on the offer 'till about a year later, and to my surprise Joat seemed to fallen off the face of the earth. -Ever the optimist, I decided to make the most of it. The "story-tellers" as I used to refer the proto-members of the pen proved to be an exciting crowd that I wanted to learn from and be part of... And I can say, that for the most part, I haven't been disappointed. Oh sure, I've had my misunderstandings and conflicts, but I love the pen and I get a lot of love back from it. -I've never forgotten just how self-conscious I was as an writer (online and off) before finding the pen. A read of my earliest works reveals just how hesitate a guy I used to be. So sometimes, I go a little overboard trying to pay the pen back for all it's given me. What I want from the Pen : Basically, I want the pen to always be there, always be supportive, and to continue to evolve in a happy way. I also want the pen to remain shiny during all this. Some thing that I've been trying to do on my own in a kind of misguided Don Quixote fashion is to raise the feedback level bar and by extension the quality of polished posts (semi-edited i.e. not a first draft and generally error free: "physician heal thyself." ~someone ancient and not me) of the pen. I'm not the first or only one currently trying to do this, but we are few and easily distracted by that annoying thing called life. Baby steps.

Nonfiction: Audio Book The Meaning of Everything Simon Winchester Faced with a 9 hours road trip on my way home from Atlanta, I decided before hand to pick up Simon Winchester's concise history of the Oxford English Dictionary. I've been waiting for a sufficiently long drive to tackle this one for oh about a year or so. Anyway, the O.E.D. is an amazing endeavour in scope and in the standards that it holds itself too. One of the main goals of the Dictionary (besides defining every English word in existence) was to be free from imperfection. Not exactly an easy task. A literal army of volunteers from the English speaking world was needed to even start, but eventually contributions started coming in from the entire globe. Winchester gives colorful snap shots of a dozen or so of these volunteers including two unfortunate Americans: One made a hermit due to scandal, and another a schizophrenic committed to an insane asylum. Winchester charts the 70 or so years that it took to churn out the entire first edition. He also goes into the a brief summary of the English language in general and a lot of background on early dictionaries and lexicons such as Samuel Johnson's and Noah Webster's respective dictionaries. It's an interesting tale, but wow, it does get a little um tedious even in the super-user friendly form of an audio book. Throughout my drive I was continually rewinding and pausing the Cd's (7 in total) trying to figure out just "what the heck he just said..." My brains pretty much Swiss-cheese after it. Anyway, good book if you like history(the Victorian age in particular), a fair amount of pomp, elocution, interesting/amusing anecdotes about how great tomes of knowledge are created. An interesting note is that the next edition (currently under-construction) of the O.E.D. is predicted to be so massive that printing a paper edition is thought to be not only impractical but also environmentally insensitive. So the editors are considering making it an electric or online only edition creating a neat marriage of Victorian scholarship with modern innovation. fun, fun. rev...

Nonfiction: Travel Book (sort of) Read for a Class. In a Sunburned Country Bill Bryson Although I've only read two other of Bryson nonfiction works (A Walk in the Woods and I'm a Stranger Here Myself), I consider myself a fan. So, I was very pleased when I found out that one of my American Studies classes (A part-teleconference course taken with Australians comparing they colonial development to the U.S.A's) had made his book about Australian one of the text. So even though class doesn't start for another week and a half, I felt compelled to devour it. Anyway, I love it. It's a hilarious take on as it turns out, a very interesting country. Like I had no idea just how vast the Country was (much of it is still yet to be surveyed) or that the most deadly creatures on earth happen inhabit it. Bryson approach in his travel books is that he just doesn't go to place and record his observations about it, but he also does some intensive research on the history of the place, which he combines in a nice little narrative from his Monty-python like wit and perspective. Bryson is an American, but spent half his life in England (he even married an English wife) as well, so he's background give him a unique perspective to see Australian through. He basically claims that Australian seems to somehow have combined the best and of both British and American lifestyles. Possibly, but you'll have to judge that for yourself. In three or so trips he visits all the major cities, traverses most of the major road ways, and landmarks that he can fit in. He visit every state to include the Northern Territory. I wasn't bored for a moment reading this book. It's awesome. Oh, but all is not bright in sunny land-down-under. He also attempts to go into the blight of the Aboriginals on a number of occasions, and awestruck by the venomous/pregidous he encounters from otherwise good-natured and dignified individuals. The answer he keeps running into when he tries to pull these pregidious into the light is, "Yes, it's a problem." A problem that Bryson can't for the life of him come up with an answer for either. And in a frank and little disturbing omission by the author, he admits that having no idea how the solve this perplexing problem on inequality, he gives up and starts to no longer see the Aborigines either. Honestly it threw me too. Read up on it, if you don't believe me, it's not only the usual questions of race, skin color, oppression, tragic and brutal slayings (of which there were many), but of how reality itself, is perceived by western and indigenous cultures. The running theme in Bryson's book seems to be how Australian is overlooked in the greater world by every discipline imaginable. Whether achievements of the Aborigines (getting there 30k years before everyone else with out a land bridge or being the oldest still intact culture on earth), their achievements in sports, economy, political intrique, they're one generation transformation from a xenophobic "white" culture to one the most multi-cultural countries on earth, the lethalness of the country in general, the ancient/primordial species and plants that have managed to survive almost nowhere else in the world (stromatolites, ancient angiosperms trees etc). Highly recommended, rev...