Archive

Justin Silverblade Page Posts: 159 (9/18/02 10:36:54 pm) Reply Re: Fathomed Fear -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Seth, I sent my thougths to you via email some time ago. But as long as this thread is here, might as well give ya a booster. Loved it, loving it, and going to keep on lovin' it. Keep up the good work friend!

Falcon2001 Quill-Bearer Posts: 403 (9/18/02 9:25:07 pm) Reply Re: Fathomed Fear -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Falcon drags himself into the critic's corner, carrying a briefcase and a bottle of wine. Throwing himself into a chair, he pours himself a glass and downs it, then glares hatefully at the briefcase. "Sorry about the lack of response, but ah've been pretty busy lately. I really like the way you're pulling it off, and hope that you finish this. By the way, I finally started HotA, so if you want to try your luck when you're finished with this, you're welcome to go for it, the more the merrier." Falcon downs another drink and then looks at his watch. "CRAP! I'vegottagoseeyalaterbye!" Falcon is out the door before Seth can quite recover. Cioden Darkeye Quill-Bearer - The Pen is Mightier than the Sword Owner of the Reply Raven - Enemy to all those who never post responses "Oh my God, I'm LEAKING POETRY!"

Gyrfalcon25 Bard Posts: 570 (9/18/02 1:27:51 pm) Reply Re: Fathomed Fear -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Heh, I've been meaning to say something for a while, but I didn't want to interject my comment into your story, breaking the flow. Then I remembered that the Critic's Corner is here for a reason. Go Seth, and yes, we read it. Or at least I do. *goes and shakes people and tells them to comment!*

Lord Seth Exodus Initiate Posts: 120 (9/18/02 10:06:54 am) Reply Re: Fathomed Fear -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Oh, thank God! I was begining to think that no one was reading my story; this is very encouraging. And, you're right, Gyr, I try to institute many biblical referances; I'm glad you like them. Just wait for the conclusion. Yours, Lord Seth Exodus Initiate of The Pen

Gyrfalcon25 Bard Posts: 569 (9/17/02 10:21:36 pm) Reply Re: Fathomed Fear -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *resurrects the thread for Seth's Fathomed Fear has begun once more* This is an excellent story, my friend. I've caught several biblical references in it so far (and I'm sure I would have caught more if I were Christian), and they seem to be well used. *applauds* Continue the story, please.

gwaihir1 Elder of Lists and Poetry Posts: 276 (9/17/02 3:51:06 pm) Reply Psimon's Outburst -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I love 'em. The three I liked most were House, Broken Sword, and Neutrality. Probably in that order Broken Sword seems to me to be composed of one very fine image. It's the kind of image I go for, and it's very well drawn. Neutrality seems to be a poem of colors. I like the whole poem, but I don't think that the first six stanzas are as good as the last one. In that last we're given a striking truth. It's not new, or unheard of, but it's well built up too, and so it's still very meaningful. House is just a cool poem. I like the way it looks back, but most of all I like the way it has a mixed outlook. The narrator seems nostalgic, but he's not saying that the former time was completely better, or that it was a golden age He does say negative things about it: "a fast and foolish evening". Regardless though, it's a time he misses, and you make me miss it too. Good job! ---------- the question is always the same with a dragon: Will he talk to you or will he eat you. If you can be sure of his doing the former and not the latter why then you're a dragon lord"- Ursula le Guin

The Big Pointy One Initiate Posts: 94 (9/2/02 6:59:41 pm) Reply ^.^ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *grins* never even noticed this... I'd best be paying more attention around here... regardless, thanks for the response, like I said, it's always appreciated. I write as it comes to me, which is as of late, next to nothing. Writer's block sucks, but I'll deal, I hope. BigPointyStick ----------------- Wielder of the BPS Companion of Mr.Bunny "I can throw knives!"

Nyyark Page Posts: 163 (6/18/02 8:19:39 am) Reply Summaries of The Heart -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yay! Its great seeing people work on getting better no matter how good they already are! I have found that for me a syllabal scheme is more important than a rhyme scheme. It seems to help the poem flow better. Good Job and keep polishing

Zool47 Patron Saint of Aspiring Bards Posts: 557 (8/2/02 8:21:21 am) Reply Re: Uh-oh. Did someone say rabbits? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Either is acceptable, as my reference is, after all, only a style guide. It's just that that is my personal preference, and why.

Yui Temae Huntress Posts: 275 (8/2/02 7:06:38 am) Reply Re: Uh-oh. Did someone say rabbits? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Zool, With regards to your comment about the series of phrases separated by a conjuction, I have always understood that there were basically two conventions, and that most editors allowed either to be used. I was taught that: apples, oranges, and bananas was just as correct as apples, oranges and bananas I'm not positive about this comment, but I believe that the conventions are largely 'American English' versus 'British English', respectively. I'll be sure to ask Aegon about it later. 'Accidentally' rifling around in Wyvern's pocket for another 50 cents, ~Yui

Yui Temae Huntress Posts: 274 (8/2/02 7:00:14 am) Reply Uh-oh. Did someone say rabbits? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Bunnies! ::A child-sized green streak flew into the room, squealing with excitement, and stopped before Zool's image... more or less. Rather, she stood there bouncing up and down as if she were on an invisible pogo stick. The child had a chubby, angelic face and eyes and hair the bright green of a new leaf of a sunshiney day. She grinned blindingly at the portrait and leaned close, pressing her nose against the strange, immoveable canvas.:: Puwple bunnies! Ooooooooooooooooo... C'mere, bunnies, bunnies, bunnies! ::Much to Zool's mounting horror, she pressed rather dirty hands against the boundary between his 2D prison and the outside world, peering in excitedly as the rabbit on his head bounded off to land in the painting's foreground, twitching its painted nose curiously.:: BUNNY!

Zool47 Patron Saint of Aspiring Bards Posts: 556 (8/2/02 4:47:25 am) Reply Re: "Quest for the Chaos" by Zadown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Zool stood regally in his protrait contemplating Zadown's update, a half dozen purple rabbits in various poses adorning his visage, sitting on his head, his shoulders, etc.. "Purple rabbits? Ridiculous."

Zadown Bard Posts: 206 (8/2/02 4:11:09 am) Reply Re: "Quest for the Chaos" by Zadown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LOL! That's about all I should say about the subject, but I guess I owe ya'll more than that. Having re-read the piece of text in question, I see it's crappy writing. Sixth senses, aye, as in multiple different channels of extra-sensory perception; innate ability, not directly related to his spells or psychic powers. Perhaps it should be something along the lines of... ... the Dreamer looked and looked around, tasted the nearby Void, smelled the currents, felt the raw Fate and Luck swirling around him in the nothingness, muttered the runes of his familiar cantrips of detection and sent lances of crude but powerful psionic detection to every direction. Nothing. He alone shone ... Perhaps it shouldn't. It's yer language, I'm just borrowing it. Some day I'll edit the text to involve purple rabbits...

Zool47 Patron Saint of Aspiring Bards Posts: 552 (8/1/02 6:47:44 pm) Reply Re: "Quest for the Chaos" by Zadown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I, also would: like To bee enlitend, ontheintentions of yoor werk, and, have also reelized the impotence of proper. (And you're not fooling anyeone Wyv. ) ~Zool~ Ancient, The Pen is Mightier than the Sword. Bard of Terra, Patron Saint of Aspiring Bards. Master of Magic and Mayhem, The Moonlit Realm Elder than dirt, more foolish than a jester, able to trip over the smallest logic in a single step. It's... Oh, you know.

Wyvern00 Elder of Initiates Posts: 687 (8/1/02 1:01:05 pm) Reply Re: "Quest for the Chaos" by Zadown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Ahhhhhh... I see the difference in interpretations now! ;p Thanks for clarifying that Yui... It's true that if Zadown was implying that he was using his sixth senses in addition to his magic detection spells and weak psionic powers, the sentance would be grammaticly correct. Somehow I failed to notice this interpretation of it, but now that you point it out I think it's likely that that's what he had intended it to mean. This entire debate just further emphasizes the power and importance of commas, and how they can radicaly change one's interpretation of a text. I also would like to hear the exact meaning the Dreamer had intended behind the sentance. Just my -25 cents... ;p Note: Wyvern grabbed the 50 cents he had previously used out of the Pen charity box to make it seem as though he were acting generously for a change...

Zool47 Patron Saint of Aspiring Bards Posts: 549 (8/1/02 9:49:26 am) Reply Re: "Quest for the Chaos" by Zadown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Also, I must question the last comma. According to Strunk and Whites "Elements Of Style"; In a series of three or more terms with a single conjunction, use a comma after each term except the last. With three terms and the connective "and", I have always folowed this rule of omitting the comma before the "and". Just my 47 cents...

Zool47 Patron Saint of Aspiring Bards Posts: 548 (8/1/02 9:39:36 am) Reply Re: "Quest for the Chaos" by Zadown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah Zadown, which is it? You've got us all very curious!

Yui Temae Huntress Posts: 270 (8/1/02 8:39:32 am) Reply Re: "Quest for the Chaos" by Zadown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wyvie and Zool, Ah-ha! Well, our difference of opinions lies in three different interpretations of what was meant. Wyvern, I see what you are saying, and thanks to your words, I see what Zool is saying. (Sorry, Zoolio, but I didn't understand what you meant, before. ) If you interpret the original intent of the sentence as to say that ' magic detection spells and weak psionic powers' are part of the Dreamer's sixth sense (I've often wondered about the 's' at the end. Typo? Or is it as Zool read it, and meant to show possession?), then I completely agree that it must be separated by commas at either end. It's an adjectival phrase in that case, if memory serves. However, my interpretation was that they were three separate talents, which is where my disagreement stems from. I thought Zadown's intention was to say that the Dreamer had his sixth sense(s) - something akin to Spiderman's spider sense? - in addition to his magic detecion spells and weak psionic powers. Does that explain all my ramblings about adverbial clauses and such? It also explains to me why you instinctively read a pause into it, and I didn't. I can't say as it's ever really occured to me just how completely different two people can read the same words, phrases, and sentences. It's kind of fascinating. I've always considered writing to be far less open to interpretation than art is, but you've made me reconsider that idea. Thanks! So, Zadown, which meaning did you intend? Does the Dreamer have a) a sixth sense, which manifests itself as magic detection spells and weak psionic powers, or all three - a sixth sense, magic detection spells, and weak psionic powers? Gladly helping herself to Wyvern's 50 cents, ~Yui

Nyyark Page Posts: 211 (8/1/02 5:47:25 am) Reply Re: "Quest for the Chaos" by Zadown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wyvern giving money!!!!!!?!!!!! Never in all my days....

Wyvern00 Elder of Initiates Posts: 686 (8/1/02 12:20:37 am) Reply Re: "Quest for the Chaos" by Zadown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yui, While I certainly understand where you're coming from and admire your grammatical knowledge, I still believe that in the case of this particular sentance either a comma is needed or it should be reworded. My reasoning is as follows: 1) As I see it, the comma placed between "sixth senses" and "magic" was put there to imply that "magic detection spells and weak psionic powers" are part of the Dreamer's "sixth senses". The way the sentance is currently worded suggests that the "magic detection spells and weak psionic powers" are a seperate entity from the Dreamer's sixth senses, which could be corrected if a comma were placed between "powers" and "scan". Alternatly, it could also be corrected if a parenthesis were put around "magic detection spells and weak psionic powers". 2) As Zool said, the sentance could also be implying that the "magic detection spells and weak psionic powers" are a seperate entity from the Dreamer's "sixth sense", in which case the comma between "sixth senses" and "magic" would be placed there to link two seperate sentances together. If this were the case, however, the first part of the sentance would have to be reworded, as "The Dreamer looked around and let his sixth senses" does not stand on its own as a full sentance. 3) Also, I often use the method you suggested by reading the sentance out loud to check for places where pauses belong. When I read this sentance aloud, I thought that a pause was needed between "powers" and "scan". Gut instinct, I s'pose... ;p Anyway, just my 50 cents...

Zool47 Patron Saint of Aspiring Bards Posts: 547 (7/31/02 12:28:20 pm) Reply Re: "Quest for the Chaos" by Zadown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Well, I certainly am not as trained as Master Yui in the anatomy of sentance structure, but I find I agree with Wyvern. I think the fragment his sixth senses magic detection is kinda clunky in the sense you read it. The debate for me, as I read the sentence, is wether or not the magic detection is or is not a product of his sixth senses. If the magic detection is not, then the comma should be included to make this clear. If it is, then an apostrophe should be added to show the ownership, thus; his sixth sense's magic detection. At least, that's Zool's syntax.

Yui Temae Huntress Posts: 266 (7/31/02 8:49:06 am) Reply Re: "Quest for the Chaos" by Zadown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Master Wyvern, please forgive me, but I must argue with one comment you've made. I will readily admit that I could be wrong, but I do believe it would be improper to add a comma to the sentence you mentioned. The Dreamer looked around and let his sixth senses, magic detection spells and weak psionic powers scan the nearby Void. I'm going to bore some people, probably, but I feel that this is something worth going over. Commas and their very intricate and rule-infested use are problems that I see (and fall victim to myself) so very, very often. They can singlehandedly ruin the comprehensibility and flow of a piece that is otherwise masterfully written, and it's not necessary. With a little work and better understanding of their purpose, anyone can harness the power of the comma to serve their whims! Anyway, let's take a look at the example from Zadown's work. I'd like to break the sentence apart. This is a sentence with a compound predicate separated by the conjuction ' and'. The Subject is 'The Dreamer', and the two Predicates are 1) ' looked around' and 2) ' let his sixth senses, magic detection spells and weak psionic powers scan the nearby Void.' Predicate #1 is pretty cut-and-dry, with a verb ( looked) and an adverb describing where he looked ( around). Predicate #2 follows the same pattern, however our 'adverb' has become an 'adverbial clause,' complete with its own compound subject ( his sixth senses, magic detection spells and weak psionic powers) and predicate ( scan the nearby Void).* Wyvern, with your suggestion, you're trying to add a comma in to separate the subject and predicate of the adverbial clause, which breaks the flow of the sentence in an unnatural place. Subjects are meant to link to their predicates, and commas are meant to forcibly break links in the sentence structure, either to prompt the reader to pause or to indicate a slight shift in the sentence's 'train of thought'. That's why you'll seldom find it appropriate to separate a subject and its predicate with a comma. Alternatively, if you're not one for the technicalities like I am, read the sentence aloud, remembering that a comma translates to a pause. It's a good general principle that all writers hopefully use! If you're in doubt, or if it's an ambiguous case in the rules, try reading the sentence aloud. Should there be a pause in there? If so, it's a good bet that you're safe to add a comma. If not, then don't. And when you're really in doubt, you can go back to something that my English teacher liked to preach to us in 8th grade. With regards to commas: "When in doubt, leave it out!" I hope that wasn't too tedious, and maybe a little bit educational. The moral...? Zadown, it is my firm belief that your sentence is correct as you wrote it and that there shouldn't be a comma between 'powers' and 'scan.' Sincerely, ~Yui-chan * If you want to further break it down, the predicate of the adverbial clause consists of the verb ( scan) and its object, telling what exactly was scanned ( the nearby Void).

Zadown Bard Posts: 205 (7/31/02 4:19:16 am) Reply Re: "Quest for the Chaos" by Zadown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hmm... I guess yer right about the commas. The rules for them are quite different in Finnish and in English. Did those two during an evening shift on my factory comp. Not too bad considering the surroundings. *shrug* The idea for the story has been in my head for months and months. I'm pretty sure I have it finished before Xmas.

Wyvern00 Elder of Initiates Posts: 677 (7/29/02 11:55:17 pm) Reply "Quest for the Chaos" by Zadown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Zadown, I read over what you've written so far in "Quest for the Chaos", and look forward to a continuation. I really like your uses of abstract imagery to convey emotions, such as your references to the Dreamer feeling "shattered" and recieving an internal scar. I also like the way you depict the Dreamer's tone and attitude, which has lost none of it's hard edged cynicism and seriousness. I'm interested to see in what ways the story developes, as a quest for the retreival of his past knowledge seems like an interesting concept. On a critical note: there were some places in the story where I thought comas were a bit overused, particularly in the second large paragraph of the second post. Also, there were one or two places where it would help to insert a coma, such as between "powers" and "scan" in the sentance "The Dreamer looked around and let his sixth senses, magic detection spells and weak psionic powers scan the nearby Void." This is some nice work, and I'm eager to read the continuation.

Nyyark Page Posts: 208 (7/31/02 7:20:39 am) Reply The Game -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is an impressive poem, not because it is flashy, but because it gets it's point across so well. The flow was ery good, your meter allowing for easy rythem develope ment. You also were able to express your thoughts very well. Your beliefs came across clearly and understandably. However in I think it might be better to work 'The Game' into the last line rather than the 2nd to last, for while naming the 'The Game' love was conclusive, the offset of repitition left me feeling cheated. Well done, I hope you start posting more!