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Nyyark Quill Bearer Posts: 277 (11/20/02 8:17:25 am) Reply WW/Natural Efficiency/Soaring Icarus -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Very interesting! This piece defiantly causes me to have to search its words for their meaning. Although I cannot say what the subject of the piece is, I believe I detect much irony. I find this to be either a part, or an unstructured poem. As a part, this seems like it would best be used to give insight into a way of thinking. The reasoning that it would have to be a part is that there isn't any action taking place outside the descriptive bubble. Perhaps it is setting? This could however be an unstructured poem. In which case I would suggest a change in title. I find the title of the poem to be very important to the meaning, especially when the subject is unclear, as in Natural Efficiency. Even just calling the poem what you are describing could be effective. If, however, your purpose is to convey the emotions without the setting being clear, you might want to keep your current title. I would then suggest structuring your poem. Because your words seem to be chosen with care, you might just want to put in line breaks. Subtle use of line breaks can completely change the meaning of a piece, or strengthen it. Line breaks would also clearly identify this a poem, which would help communication with those who are context based. "They are not permitted the artful nature of three...” and "Their trunks are bolted to a conical stump...” have a repetition of "They". I find they to be a weak word for repetition first in general because its a pronoun, and secondly, more specifically to "Natural Efficiency" because it signifies "multiple" and not "two". Using a repetition of a word that means two in the place of "They" would lead the reader to find more importance in the fact that there are two. "Protruding", "imperfection", "cold", "deprived", "barren" wasteland", "bolted", "jagged", "crazed", "screwed", "clamps", "Metallic", are words that strongly set your tone. You did an excellent job with the tone and if you do make changes I would suggest trying to keep these words, or if you must replace them do it with an equally connoted word. All in all a very good start Icarus, keep up the good work.

SoaringIcarus Initiate Posts: 29 (11/22/02 2:02:04 pm) Reply Re: Sample Criticism... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yeah, what's with poets of that time? I just read something by some 'Whiteman' or something rather... He didn't even know to call them blades of grass.. Just another pot-head on poetry. Why are these people allowed the posession of paper and writing tools?!

peredhil31 An Ancient Polite Bard Posts: 1141 (11/20/02 11:00:46 am) Reply ezSupporter Sample Criticism... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This is meant to be a tongue-in-cheek criticism, so all you writers out there can realize that sometimes Critics don't understand Art. With apologies and inspiration from Donald Kaul, who did it better years ago. -Peredhil Joyce Kilmer. 1886–1918 119. Trees I THINK that I shall never see A poem lovely as a tree. Joyce, while I appreciate your hyperbole, I think I've seen some really really ugly trees. Do you ever get out? Take a walk, it will help feed your poetry. Perhaps sunsets or puppies? A tree whose hungry mouth is prest Against the sweet earth's flowing breast; A tree that looks at God all day, 5 And lifts her leafy arms to pray; Is this tree a contortionist? Have you tried sketching this tree? Its mouth is on the ground (something Freudian going on here Joyce?) and it's arms are lifted in a painful angle. While its eyes are rolled back enough to look at God's traditional seat in the heavens... You aren't into bondage are you? A tree that may in summer wear A nest of robins in her hair; Hair? Trees have hair? And chickens have lips now I suppose. Try not to mix metaphors Joyce. Stick with one thought and develop it, it will read more strongly. Have you ever seen the amount of icky stuff in a robin's nest? The baby-blue eggs look nice, but by summer, they're gone and it's full of baby bird crap. Upon whose bosom snow has lain; Who intimately lives with rain. 10 Okay, I'm seeing the bosom motif again. Am I to assume this bosom is different than the Earth's bosum you had the twisted tree suckling earlier? Where you a bottle-fed baby by any chance? Intimate with rain? I won't even go into that, except to say we try to keep this a family readable site. Poems are made by fools like me, But only God can make a tree And a pretty weird tree it is. Thank God you didn't try to blame this perverted poem on Him. I think this line would be more accurate if you'd change it to: "Poorly written poems are made by fools such as I, And robins dropped refuse in my rolled-back eye." All in all, a good start at a poem, but don't quit your day job yet. We do not write because we want to; we write because we have to. W. Somerset Maugham Edited by: peredhil31 at: 11/20/02 11:18:22 am

Yui Temae Huntress Posts: 317 (11/21/02 6:48:36 am) Reply Re: Yui-chan's Collected Poetry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Wyvern, Wow. Not only am I honored that you took the time and effort to read and analyze my poems, but also that you liked them so well. I have to say that you've done a great job of seeing into the purpose and motivation for each of them. I'm both pleased that I was able to portray my messages so clearly and glad that it was someone of your discerning taste and intelligence who pulled them forth so clearly. You're far better at reading poetry than I am, Wyv, and I hope you realize what a help your insightful analyses are. Thank you for the kind words and your precious time. Rest assured that you'll see whatever other works my fickle little Poetry Muse inspires me to write. Yours, ~Yui

Wyvern00 Elder of Initiates Posts: 752 (11/15/02 10:25:12 pm) Reply Yui-chan's Collected Poetry Individually Analyzed -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Yui, I've read through each of your archived poems several times, and must say that I find each one of them individually brilliant. I also see a number of things which reoccur throughout the poems that add to their excellence, such as your uses of structural styles and rhythm. Overall, this is honestly some of the best poetry I have read on the Pen, and I would highly recommend anybody that hasn't read these poems to get to doing so as soon as possible. Here's an individual commentary and analysis for each poem, as complimenting them as a whole simply doesn't do them justice: "Shards Apart" In my opinion, the underlying theme of this poem deals with two major ways that people cope with tragic events, those ways being the abandonment of hope through death or the acceptance of tragedy by placing one's faith in hope. This theme is illustrated through several excellent uses of imagery, particularly the image of "blowing apart" one's "shards of heart", which is related to the abandonment of love and hope that come about through tragedy. Personification is also used, as can be seen in stanza 3 where Fate is brilliantly depicted as a Grim Reaper-like figure, mercilessly weilding his scythe and symbolizing inevitable tragedy in the process. The narrator of the poem chooses the path of hope, and also challenges the reader to do the same. This can be seen in the final two lines of the poem, where the path of death is associated with failure: "Give up and cease and fail and die,/Or live and fight and choose as I..." (ll. 41-42). This challenge can also be seen on a structural level, as in every second stanza of the poem the narrator offers reasons why it might be better not to place one's faith in hope. Far from glamorizing the path of despair and death, these lines are used to depict the abandonment of hope as a tempting yet ultimately unrewarding option. Perhaps, then, the final theme of the poem is that persevering and accepting the hand that Fate has dealt is a more rewarding option then succumbing to despair. Another final thing to note about this poem is that the rhythm and rhyme schemes are superb. Far from a one dimensional pattern, the rhythms and rhymes alternate with each verse: stanzas 1, 3, and 5 have the same patterns while stanzas 2, 4, and 6 share a different pattern. To close the poem, stanza 7 has a slightly different pattern than those of 1, 3, and 5. This use of structure causes the poem to flow naturally, and makes it a pleasure to read. "In the Old Way" In this poem, the narrator suggests that the best way to live is simply by being one's self, as opposed to choosing false identities to suite the reactions of others. This is shown in the final long stanza, where the narrator pleas "Find your way,/the right way./Never their way,/the locked way,/the stifling way." (ll. 19-23). This statement suggests that each person should follow their own emotions, rather than abiding by the thoughts of others and thereby suppressing their true feelings. In the lines that follow, the narrator also notes that "Only one way/ is the true way." (ll. 24-25). This relates the truth of one's emotions to the single appropriate way of living, and hints at the principle theme of staying true to oneself found within the poem. Structure is also used as a tool to convey the message of the poem... Not only do the formations of the lines add to the natural rhythm of the poem, they also compliment the theme of the poem very nicely. The "Old" and "true" ways in which people follow their own feelings is depicted as a simplistic method of being oneself, and the simple yet catchy stanza structure of the poem serves as a compliment to this theme. The depictions of raw emotions in the first three stanzas of the poem relate to the principle themes as well, as they portray the most basic and true emotions one can experience. "Dawn's Reverie" This poem is my favorite of the four pieces presented in the "Collected Poetry" thread, yet interestingly enough it's probably that on which I'll comment the least. My reasoning behind this is simply that, sometimes, the beauty of a poem cannot be appropriately expressed through words and analysis... Sometimes, it's best to just let the poem speak for itself, to draw the reader in with it's words and seduce them with it's extraordinary charm. I find "Dawn's Reverie" a truly beautiful poem... one which evokes vivid emotions in it's brilliant uses of imagery and it's heartfelt subject matter. I find the imagery used to be both highly personal and widely universal... something that all can relate to, yet obviously written on a personal basis. My favorite part of this poem was the end of the second stanza... I could name numerous brilliant elements of this piece, but that would most probably result in me quoting 90% of the poem, so I'll simply leave it at that... As I said, it's best left to speak for itself... The theme can be found in the last two lines... Those who haven't read this don't know what they're missing... ;p “Lament” This poem deals with a theme similar to that of "Shards Apart", as it's principle message is that people should cling to their hopes and endure tragic events rather than falling into despair. This can be seen at the end of the first stanza, where the narrator notes: "In a world upside-down,/ Hold so tight to your hope!/ Lest you find it struck dead,/ Hung on cruelty's frayed rope." (ll. 7-10). In these lines, the narrator urges the reader not to succumb to despair, and to keep faith in their hopes despite the deplorable state that the world is currently in. In a manner similar to the depiction of Fate in "Shards Apart", Cruelty is personified as an executioner of sorts in the poem, weilding a noose with the ultimate objective of hanging and destroying people's hopes. This depiction makes Cruelty an enemy to be shunned in the poem, as well as one of the primary obstacles to the preservation of hope. As in the other poems, structure is used excellently in "Lament"... The second, third, fifth, and sixth lines of each stanza begin with a short silence, as if the narrator is having difficulty declaring them due to their grim nature. The narrator also ends the poem in this way, which accentuates her challenge to "live life rightside-up" perfectly. ----------- Thus, in conclusion, the four poems presented in the "Collected Poetry" thread are all brilliant in their own individual ways. At the same time, however, each of the poems have a number of excellent traits in common... The use of structure as a form of expression and the theme of the preservation of hope, in particular, are apparent in the majority of the works... On a side note, I enjoy reading these poems over again ever so often, rather than simply going over them once. They really are a pleasure to read... A big round of applause for your outstanding poetry, Yui. I apologize for the loss' of your earliest works, and will be certain to do what I can to retrieve them... Wyv- Almost a Dragon... "Guard your innocence close/ Lest they steal it from you." -Yui, "Lament"

Gyrfalcon25 Bard Posts: 615 (10/28/02 8:08:01 am) Reply Re: Yui-chan's Collected Poetry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I've read a bit of it too, and I agree with Peredhil and Zool- you go, Yui-chan!

Yui Temae Huntress Posts: 306 (10/28/02 6:33:33 am) Reply Arigatoo -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you, gentlemen. Frustration at the world is often a good motivation. ;P It's nice to know someone's reading, at least! ~Yui

Zool47 Patron Saint of Aspiring Bards & Weenie Posts: 710 (10/25/02 10:44:38 am) Reply Re: Yui-chan's Collected Poetry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Indeed - Wonderful! ~Zool~ Hell NO I don't want competition - I want something I can win!

peredhil31 An Ancient Polite Bard Posts: 1118 (10/25/02 8:15:38 am) Reply ezSupporter Yui-chan's Collected Poetry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- really nothing to say intelligently or helpfully, other than you rok0rz! I love reading your works, and you simply get better as you continue to write. You are being read! -Peredhil "A man's judgment is best when he can forget himself and any reputation he may have acquired and can concentrate wholly on making the right decisions." -ADM Raymond A. Spruance

Yui Temae Huntress Posts: 315 (11/18/02 7:13:39 am) Reply Re: Lord Ishmael's "Darkness" (Assembly Rm) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thank you, Gwaihir. I hadn't really expected him to get to see it, and I appreciate the effort.

gwaihir1 Elder of Lists and Poetry Posts: 320 (11/16/02 7:37:31 am) Reply Re: Lord Ishmael's "Darkness" (Assembly Rm) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (he couldn't get in here to see it, but I pasted it to him some time ago, before he went always-idle again. Edited by: gwaihir1 at: 11/18/02 11:50:54 am

Yui Temae Huntress Posts: 307 (10/29/02 9:06:35 am) Reply Lord Ishmael's "Darkness" (Assembly Rm) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Hm. Am I showing just how behind I am in my reading? Ishmael, I just wanted to comment on how emotionally evocative I thought "Darkness" was, how easily it seemed to make me see and feel the strange sensations of the second-person self. I loved that, and I came away with not only great curiosity as to the particulars of the mystery but also a sort of awe at how masterfully I thought you used a combination of sensory-description and scenery-description to build the work. It was just enough to draw the reader into the experience while just little enough to force them to dream it into something uniquely-tailored to them. Wonderful! I want to see more, oh busy Blood Lord. Sincerely, ~Yui

Gyrfalcon25 Bard Posts: 626 (11/13/02 10:19:01 pm) Reply Re: Quick Question -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Assembly Room is a good place to put such a story, m'lady Rhapsody. As for feedback... well, some of us will endevor to give it, I hope. Fan-fics are allowable and accepted here, as far as I know.

Rhapsody Initiate Posts: 25 (11/13/02 9:31:42 pm) Reply Quick Question -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- If I have a long story I want to post chapter-by-chapter, which forum would be the ideal place to put it? In order to get the most feedback? Do y'all do fan-fics? If not, I'm perfectly willing to change the name of my main character; honestly its written in such a way that nobody would know that he was a celeb if it weren't for his giveaway name. Thanx for the help.

Vlad the Imploder Initiate Posts: 13 (11/6/02 1:05:16 pm) Reply Re: WW/Rules/Nyark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- *Grins Sheepishly*

Nyyark Quill Bearer Posts: 274 (11/5/02 3:37:06 pm) Reply You should read "The Rules" in the Writer's Worksh -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- What does WW stand for? Writers Workshop Is the format for commenting on a work WW/Title/Author? When commenting on work from the Writer's Shop WW/Title/Author is the format to address a response. All responces to a Writer's Workshop work are to be mad ein the Critic's Corner. Are mullets out of style now? Most definatly Is Nyark the moderator of this here thread? No, but I do have another y Does Nyark have loads of authority? Only in the Writer's Workshop Did I spell authority right? I don't have a clue How do you pronounce Nyark? Ny = Ni(as in night) Yark = y(as in you) + (ark in dark)

Vlad the Imploder Initiate Posts: 10 (11/4/02 7:54:13 pm) Reply Re: WW/Rules/Nyark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Okay, I'm confused. (Suprised? I'm not!) Seeing as Zool started asking questions here, I'll follow suit. What does WW stand for? Is the format for commenting on a work WW/Title/Author? Are mullets out of style now? Is Nyark the moderator of this here thread? Does Nyark have loads of authority? Did I spell authority right? How do you pronounce Nyark? *scampers off to think of more questions* ---Vlad the Imploder--- No relation to Vlad the Impaler "If I had $75 for every time that happened, by the way, it'll cost you $75..." -Dr. Hibbert "Hello, everybody!" -Dr. Nick

Nyyark Quill Bearer Posts: 271 (10/22/02 2:38:40 pm) Reply Comments in a post eh? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I think it would be appropriate to put a comment in your work. I will however say thay by doing this you might limit the commentary, because it provides direction. It will however be useful too. So in short: Yes.

Zool47 Patron Saint of Aspiring Bards & Weenie Posts: 704 (10/21/02 6:59:09 am) Reply Re: WW/Rules/Nyark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- One more question... Is it okay to put author's comments in the same post in the WW to kind of highlight what I was shooting for and where I made changes? I agree that discussion should be in this forum, and will keep all comments here if you want, but for the author or someone trying to follow the evolution of a piece it seems easier to keep that in the same thread. Thanks, ~Zool~ King of Nothing, Lord of Nobody, but thoroughly in charge of how I feel about that.

Nyyark Page Posts: 265 (10/16/02 5:51:07 pm) Reply Re: WW/Rules/Nyark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks I think it would be best to re-post the entire work. This is one of the reasons for feedback to be exclusivly posted in the Critic's Corner. The reasoning behind this is that I believe it is easier to see the evolution of a work in this way. Viewing only the changing aspect may cause a loss of the bigger picture. Also find where the changes fit in would be difficult for a post main times reworked. I'm fairly sure the following is and unnecessary statement, but copying and pasting speeds the process greatly. As far as computer memory allotments, I'm not sure how EZboard does that kind of thing. I think that the writer's workshop would be an okay place to discuss writing techniques in general. I look forward to seeing your views.

Zool47 Patron Saint of Aspiring Bards & Weenie Posts: 697 (10/16/02 5:40:21 pm) Reply WW/Rules/Nyark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- First of all, Congrats on your new forum! I think your focus and critical perception makes you perfect for the job - and the job SHOULD DEFINITELY be given Elder status, IMO... But anyway, I was wondering when posting changes, should we just post the change itself or the entire new work? Posting the entire edited work would take a lot of space, especially for a major re-editing schlep like me. And I hate to admit it, but I have actually edited a post 8 MONTHS after I posted it. Also, what of discussions of writing itself? Can that be done in threads in the workshop, or is that more of a subject for somewhere else? Thanks, ~Zool~ King of Nothing, Lord of Nobody, but thoroughly in charge of how I feel about that

peredhil31 An Ancient Polite Bard Posts: 1128 (11/4/02 9:16:59 am) Reply ezSupporter WW/Natural Efficiency/Soaring Icarus -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I like the imagery, although at first reading it's leaving me with mixed visions. On one level, I'm seeing an outeratmospheric installation, on another a metallic eruption from a jungle. One thing to do, perhaps, might be to break up the reading by spacing and carriage returns, to make the reading easier. I look forward to reading the next incarnation. "A man's judgment is best when he can forget himself and any reputation he may have acquired and can concentrate wholly on making the right decisions." -ADM Raymond A. Spruance

reverie Page Posts: 247 (11/1/02 2:21:37 pm) Reply Re: WW/Long Distance/reverie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- oh that's kewl... yeah i see how you get lost in the stanzas... it's pretty chaotic right now... if i ever get the energy i'll pull it all together... i'm letting the ideas gel for the moment though, cause i'm not sure what to do with it... started for signe as a gift... but like almost anything i 'say' i'm going to write for her, it takes me awhile... like over a year sometimes... lot of it came from a journal i sometimes write sporadically in free hand to capture ideas n'stuf... so i just copied a lot of it over here word for word ya know... a few more drafts should clean it up... prolly will drop the 'should' the 'and /or' was because i haven't decided which word to use??? i'll figure it all out eventually though... ya know, i might just split it into two poems... one from the first train of thought and one for the based on 'fell's' underlining rythem... but then again prolly not... thanx for the input...sorry for not being around some much...have been busy with RL and now on holiday with friends in N. Carolina... so like is not polite to horde their OUTSTANDING, WAY KEWL, KICKQ#%!!! Cable connection....(drools) revery the dreamlost "rythme? ooo, i made a new word..." the dream continues...

gwaihir1 Elder of Lists and Poetry Posts: 303 (10/29/02 8:06:00 am) Reply WW/Long Distance/reverie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I really like this but I feel that sometimes I'm getting left behind in between stanzas. for instance in between "-A moments lapse / So far from my graspe" and "I fell for you again." Did the speaker just lose and regain the long distance person? Maybe it's just me, but I'm unclear. Also, you comment in parens about your rhythm. It feels songlike and free to me, but I can definitely feel the rhythm. Personally, I'm not so sure about the or/and unless you mean it to suggest the awkwardness. I would leave the should out "Let me know how much (should?)I know" There, I'm not good at critiquing songlike poems, but .

Zool47 Patron Saint of Aspiring Bards & Weenie Posts: 712 (10/26/02 7:34:17 am) Reply Re: Assembly Room - Mad? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I also find your sentence a bit of a contradiction Master P... Shoulda' known you'd have the scoop though. ~Zool~ Hell NO I don't want competition - I want something I can win!